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 Post subject: "Kirov"/Unification Church/The 'Moonies'/etc!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2000 3:17 am 
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i have come across a set of links which i think it may be worthwhile hanging onto, for reference, for someone, at some point....<P>they concern the well-known links between korean/american Reverend Sun Myung Moon, (also his daughter the ballet dancer), the 'kirov' name in the USA, and the washington DC so-called 'kirov' school etc.<P>btw, one of Moon's assets in the washington times! (i didn't know that....) later NOTE: NOT The Washington Post, as i had originally mis-read.....<P>and a comment on this subject from someone, who -i'm sorry- but i don't remember....i think it was from phillip at danceart. thanks, phillip....(these are HIS words, not my opinions...)<P>"Kirov, in Russia, is still Kirov, unaffiliated with the <BR> Moonies. What Moon did was to buy the NAME <BR> Kirov from them in order to use that name here in <BR> the USA after the fall of the Soviet Union. There <BR> were many fine Russian teachers looking to get <BR> out of Russia at that time and he also hired them. <BR> It makes sense that he would want to use a <BR> respected company's name since who would <BR> send their kids to the school if it was called the <BR> Unification Universalist (or whatever he calls it) <BR> School? I guarantee you that most of the folks on <BR> these boards and elsewhere wouldn't be looking <BR> at this school if it didn't have the name Kirov <BR> (bought for a fee.) Remember, everything has its <BR> price. I think that's the moral of the entire Moon <BR> saga. "<P>here are the links - a boring looking list, i know, but actually they're quite interesting. the first one describes a day in the life of any young traveller, who may be approached by a cult member. <P><A HREF="http://www.dci.dk/engelsk/elefant/moonie.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.dci.dk/engelsk/elefant/moonie.html</A> <BR> <A HREF="http://www.letusreason.org/Moon.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.letusreason.org/Moon.htm</A> <P><A HREF="http://www.newcovpub.com/celebrities.html" TARGET=_blank>www.newcovpub.com/celebrities.html</A> <BR> <A HREF="http://www.familiefederatie.org/NwsApril7.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.familiefederatie.org/NwsApril7.html</A> <BR> <A HREF="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/cult/unification/main.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/<BR>longterm/cult/unification/main.htm</A> <BR> <A HREF="http://www.tparents.org/Library/Unification/Topics/U-Stuff/org-list.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.tparents.org/Library/Unification<BR>/Topics/U-Stuff/org-list.htm</A> <BR> <A HREF="http://www.editorandpublisher.com/ephome/news/newshtm/stories/051600n4.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.editorandpublisher.com/ephome<BR>/news/newshtm/stories/051600n4.htm</A> <BR> <A HREF="http://www.newcovpub.com/examples.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.newcovpub.com/examples.html</A> <BR> <A HREF="http://www.tolc.org/readgb.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.tolc.org/readgb.htm</A><P><BR>this last one is about organisations seeking to use mind-control, or assert undue influence....interesting site in general re politics, religion, advertising, whatever... <BR> <A HREF="http://www.chapman.edu/comm/comm/faculty/thobbs/com401/socialinfluence/linkrev.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.chapman.edu/comm/comm/faculty/thobbs/<BR>com401/socialinfluence/linkrev.html</A> <P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Stuart Sweeney (edited September 05, 2000).]

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 Post subject: Re: "Kirov"/Unification Church/The 'Moonies'/etc!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2000 4:01 am 
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Image <P>'Don Q' by Universal Ballet<P><BR>This issue presents a current dilemma for me at least. The Universal Ballet (financed by the Rev.Moon) are coming to London. They appear to be very good, but I do have moral quarms at the association, even if it is just a financial one. On balance my current feeling is not to go. <BR> <A HREF="http://www.sadlers-wells.com/performances/main_stage/autumn2000/universal.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.sadlers-wells.com/performances/main_stage/autumn2000/universal.htm</A> <P>I didn't read all the links on the list grace, but I did find the Washington Post one very good at explaining the context for the Moon activity in ballet and with the Kirov in particular. I do find it worrying, so thanks for pointing out the sources. <P> <A HREF="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/cult/unification/main.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/cult/unification/main.htm</A> <P><p>[This message has been edited by Stuart Sweeney (edited July 23, 2000).]


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 Post subject: Re: "Kirov"/Unification Church/The 'Moonies'/etc!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2000 3:40 pm 
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Image <P>note also that there are a lot of links on the side of that page, including part two of the same article.<P>this section re-iterates philips' point above, and also reflects on your dilemma:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"Of course, the whole thing is to buy respectability," said Marvin Borderlon, a<BR> Roman Catholic ex-priest who is president of the American Conference on<BR> Religious Movements, a Rockville-based group that fights discrimination<BR> against new religions. The group is funded by the Church of Scientology, the<BR> Hare Krishna organization, and most of all, by Unificationists, who give him<BR> $3,000 a month, Borderlon said.<P> "They'll have a conference on the essence of religious founders, like Buddha,<BR> Jesus and guess who," Borderlon said. "He gets a room full of academics to<BR> sit there while he pronounces himself the Messiah. He gets his picture taken<BR> with them. He gets credibility, they get to have their conference. It's all very<BR> messy."<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><p>[This message has been edited by grace (edited July 25, 2000).]

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 Post subject: Re: "Kirov"/Unification Church/The 'Moonies'/etc!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2000 4:06 pm 
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Please read the article carefully, it is the Washington TIMES(a tabloid) that Moon owns NOT the POST!! The Graham family (with matriarch Catherine Graham as the Post Chairman) is still a majority owner of the Post.


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 Post subject: Re: "Kirov"/Unification Church/The 'Moonies'/etc!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2000 7:14 pm 
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There was just last week an article printed about Mr. Moon etc. in our weekly paper. Their url is <A HREF="http://www.anchoragepress.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.anchoragepress.com</A> and I'd put the one direct to the article, but it was ungodly long. It's in the archives, in the July 13-19th issue, if you care to see.<BR>Anyway - Stuart, are you not interested in seeing the Moon Kirov company because of their financial connection or because their choices in what and how they dance are poor? Seemed it was the money part, right? Are there other companies anyone knows of which are owned by religious organizations or other not really arts-oriented groups?<BR>


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 Post subject: Re: "Kirov"/Unification Church/The 'Moonies'/etc!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2000 7:22 pm 
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Here is the URL of that article Prisanh is referring to:<P> <A HREF="http://www.anchoragepress.com/document.cfm?id=2806&type=collections&classification=Features" TARGET=_blank>http://www.anchoragepress.com/document.cfm?id=2806&type=collections&classification=Features</A> <P><BR>That's a good question Prisanh, about ballet companies being owned by extreme religious sects. And this is a dangerous subject to be discussing. There are many performers today that come from very diverse backgrounds. How do you know someone you're watching on stage isn't a devout follower of some sect or another?<P>Personally, I am inclined to give the ballet company the benefit of the doubt if it is not being used as a vehicle to promote the religion of its benefactor.


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 Post subject: Re: "Kirov"/Unification Church/The 'Moonies'/etc!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2000 7:48 pm 
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I'm wondering Azlan, whether you thought I don't want to watch dancers with whom I do not agree? It's too bad my question about other companies' ownership was read to imply I am not aware of or open to diversity in the world. I simply wanted to know about interesting ownerships of dance companies.<p>[This message has been edited by Prisanh (edited July 23, 2000).]


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 Post subject: Re: "Kirov"/Unification Church/The 'Moonies'/etc!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2000 9:54 am 
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Prisanh, you're right its the money angle that concerns me or rather where the money comes from.<P>It's not the religeous angle - I eat from time to time in a Hari Krishna restaurant, where the food is good, because they seem to be an open organisation, which is available for interview by the press and adherents can leave etc.<P>The Rev Moon's organisation does seem to have a number of unattractive features. Clearly they believe that they are getting something out of this - it will be interesting to see whether the link is established in the publicity. But, even if there is zero profile for the Rev. Moon I would still have problems, just as I would if it was financed by a far-right organisation.


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 Post subject: Re: "Kirov"/Unification Church/The 'Moonies'/etc!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2000 10:58 am 
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Prisanh,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It's too bad my question about other companies' ownership was read to imply I am not aware of or open to diversity in the world<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Sorry, my question/observation wasn't directed at you. It was really a clarification I was trying to get from Stuart about his comments. I apologize if I had offended you.


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 Post subject: Re: "Kirov"/Unification Church/The 'Moonies'/etc!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2000 4:36 pm 
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To me, it seems the picture here is bigger than the question of seeing dancers whose personal life you may not agree with. Moon knows that to "legitimize" himself by controlling respected institutions is clever way to attach legitimacy to himself in some form, and to increase his holdings. These sort of alignments serve to create a dichotomy among questioning people by showing the front organization as worthy, as in the long standing and respected Kirov school, which indeed it is, while allowing his personal agenda to flourish. It seems so far removed from him, (aforementioned Kirov school) that it seems safe to support it, and in some ways it is, but ultimately it comes back to him. We mustn't forget this.


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 Post subject: Re: "Kirov"/Unification Church/The 'Moonies'/etc!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2000 6:05 pm 
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moule: thank you very much for setting me straight! Image<P>

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 Post subject: Re: "Kirov"/Unification Church/The 'Moonies'/etc!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2000 12:55 pm 
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The unification church is buying its way into many USA institutions.<BR>They just took over the IP.....<BR>I read where a journalist quit her/his? job because the IP is now owned by the Moonies.<BR>I can not see what they are trying to do.<BR>But I understand they give quite heavily to NY philharmonic also.<BR>The list that ReV. Moon has investments in is very long.<BR>It is sort of frightening.<BR>And one wonders why he is doing this.<BR>What is the end goal, if in fact there is one.<P>I do know that none of my former students, who went to the "kirov" school in DC were forced to become Moonies....<BR>But the tight structure of the school and the type of control at the school is very fightening for someone from the USA.<BR>Maybe not from Europe or the UK where state schools are run in the same way.<BR>We are not used to this type of total control for our children.<BR>I would not send my kids to a school like that.<BR>But, I like freedom and letting them find themselves.<BR>I did not agree with my students who went off to the DC school.<BR>But who can argue with 40,000.00 a year training, food and board, education, and living. (all free at that time)<BR>I understand it is not as "free" for most kids any longer.<BR><P>------------------<BR>bek<BR>CCA CREATIONS<BR>Website:<BR>http://members.tripod.com/~Casalino<P>

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 Post subject: Re: "Kirov"/Unification Church/The 'Moonies'/etc!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2000 9:38 pm 
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>But the tight structure of the school and the type of control at the school is very fightening for someone from the USA.<BR>Maybe not from Europe or the UK where state schools are run in the same way.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>A bit puzzled by this bek. Could you enlarge on the similarities in structure and control that you see between the Moonie Kirov school and state schools in Europe and the UK? <P>I share your unease about the potential for control that the Moonies are building in organisations in the US and elsewhere, even if they are not exercising that control at the moment.


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 Post subject: Re: "Kirov"/Unification Church/The 'Moonies'/etc!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2000 10:20 pm 
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btw i noticed a debate at another board recently, which is run by a washington writer (possibly for that same newspaper?), where she stated that her impression was that moon had divested himself of the ballet school interest and, i believe, she thought he had got out of the newspaper too. <P>however, other posters disagreed, and i don't know what the final thoughts were. i'm sure aurora could help on this one.<P>i certainly got the impression that his interest in the school had been significantly lessened (i mean 'interest' strictly in the financial sense here), some years ago, by other parties buying in, but i'm not at all sure of the facts.<P>bek: i too am curious about your 'control' type comment re the students....?

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 Post subject: Re: "Kirov"/Unification Church/The 'Moonies'/etc!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2000 4:27 pm 
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<B>bek</B> wrote the following (and a lot more! Image ). i have moved the rest of her post to THE STUDIO (where it might be of more relevant interest, rather than just about the washington kirov issue.):<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Stuart posed:"A bit puzzled by this bek. Could you enlarge on the similarities in structure and control that you see between the Moonie Kirov school and state schools in Europe and the UK? "<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>In the USA we have very few "sleep-away" dance schools.<P>We have maybe 6 sleep away ballet schools in this country. These sleep away schools.....North Carolina School of the Arts, Central Penn, Ballet, Walnut Hill, Virginia School of the Arts, Interlochen (mainly for modern tho), And the Kirov.<P>Most of the sleep away schools have dance classes, and regular school classes. They live in dorms, and a pretty much chaperoned, but not to a degree where everything they do is supervised.<P>Now, the parents who do send the kids to the sleep away schools, get to see the kids when ever they want, the kids can go home at holidays, they can have parents visit whenever, etc etc.<P>They also have modern ideas, like the dorms have rules but not too strict. The schools are co ed. So there are the usual problems: like any other high school, sex, drugs and video tapes...(sorry, that was a sarcastic remark about a movie, bad pun.....)<P>But true.......the schools don't monitor the kids really closely. They are teens and they do pretty much what they might do at home. Some are "good" kids...don't smoke, drink, drug or have sex......others do some of the above and others do all of the above.<BR>And they DANCE!<P>So: then comes the Kirov: The first year the Kirov school opened...two of my graduates (extremely gifted kids) went (against my better judgment...but that didn't matter) to this school.<BR>It was named something else at the time.<BR>Since then I have had a few other students switch to this school after graduation.<P>This school was set up with the mentality of being the total guardian of the kids.<P>The kids who go to this school, are told when they CAN go home. The students (who came from me), were not allowed to come back home over thanksgiving Vacation....(.that is a biggy in the USA.....College students all go home over those 4 days.)<BR>But, the Kirov kids, were told NOPE.....Too much time off, can't do it, not good for you.<P>Then came X-mas.....they were given all of less than one week.<BR>Most schools have two or three weeks at x-mas in the USA, this is when families get together, go on trips etc.<BR>So, the same with Easter, etc.<P>All the holidays that "normal" kids (even boarding school/prep school) would get to go home, or parents to visit. Not the Kirov.<P>Parents were not allowed to take the kids out of school, they were not allowed to go home.<P>They were bussed to the local high school, in the AM, and as soon as they were done, they were bussed back to the Dance/ dorm school.<P>They danced from the time they got home till dinner, then they were supervised with their homework, etc. Told when to go to bed.<P>They could not go out to a mall, or shopping, they were told what they could view on TV, and what movies they were allowed to see.<BR>They were carted to and from their churches or synagogues.<BR> <BR>Everything they did was always structured and supervised.<BR>They had almost no free time, to think on their own, to make up their minds........sort of like being in the army.<P>They were given dessert only like three times a week, their menu was carefully chosen for them. And they were kept on strict diets, if they tended to be "over dance weight".<BR>They were not allowed to have candy or any other type of treats.<P>Every minute of every day was scheduled out for them.<BR>They either had a dance class, or a homework session, or a food session, or a recreation session, which was all planned. Their whole life was driven by the school.<P>This is not the normal USA way.<BR>Be USA (us) right or wrong.....the USA kids are not like this.<P>Many of the graduates had a hard time when they graduated 4 yrs later, making the adjustment to a normal "ballet life", getting along in a company. Some were so burned out, they quit ballet.<BR>(that is what happened to one or two of my former students).....They had never had a "normal" teen age life.<P>So, when I say: the State system: <BR>Think the movie "Theater Street".<P>As for Royal Ballet School, it has been my impression, most of the kids there do a similar thing. If they are accepted, they live at the school, the school determines what they do, when they do it, and how they do it.<P>I know China does this, Russia did this, and so do many other of the "state" schools.<BR>Does this help clear up the matter at all?<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by grace (edited September 09, 2000).]

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