public forum
home forum magazine gallery links about faq courtesy
It is currently Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:01 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 69 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Gaynor Minden Debate
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2001 7:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2001 11:01 pm
Posts: 66
Location: Barto PA, USA
Most of my students use GM's, some do not. None of them have had to use the hair dryer. They have used the strength of their feet to work the shank to fit their arches.<P>I remember using Russian technique ballet slippers to strengthen my arch because I had to work harder to bend the shoe at the arch.<P>GM's do the same. I have used them and have not found that they weaken the foot or make you lazy.<P>If a student is trained properly that it does not matter what shoe you use. If you can dance on it and peform well in it, what does it matter?<P>Why is it that athletic shoes and other equipment has been created to make the athletes run faster, jump higher, throw further, etc. but if a shoe comes along that may make it eaiser and more comfortable to perform, that there is so much flack about it?<P>I keep hearing about tradition, but if you think about, are we not cheating with other brands? Didn't Maria Cagliari dance on her toes originally without the help of boxed shoes?<P>Of course she did not do all the things we do now, but then again, she could not, could she? Why? Because the blocked shoes made it possible to do what could not be done before.<P>Do you understand what I am saying? Improved equipment does not mean worse dancing. I have seen sculptors carve stone with a chainsaw. Does that make their talent any less than the artist who does it with a hammer and chisel.<P>I saw an artist do paintings with spray paint. It was fabulous. Is his method any less than the brush and palette?<P>Different materials are just another end to a means. If a dancer can dance a beautiful Sugar Plum Fairy or Firebird in GM's or Sanhas, does it really matter? And if the GM's protect the feet a little better and put less wear and tear on the feet and joints, is that not a plus?<P>Just my thoughts.<P>Janet

_________________
Janet


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gaynor Minden Debate
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2001 7:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2001 11:01 pm
Posts: 66
Location: Barto PA, USA
Also, GM's can be darned very easily. We also have used moleskin with great success in class.<P>Janet

_________________
Janet


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gaynor Minden Debate
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2001 7:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 02, 1999 12:01 am
Posts: 2708
Location: Seattle, WA USA
JLL, yes, I agree with you in theory regarding new technology. Yes, "newfanggled" (smile) doesnt' mean "bad", of course. We must constantly look for new and better ways of doing things, in any field. But like any new invention, the proof is in the pudding, so to speak. How long have GM been around---5yrs, a little more? Not very long, compared with the history of ballet in general---hundreds of years right? And we are dealing with malleable, young human feet here, each ONE uniquely different. I dont' want to sound hopelessly old-fashioned, lord knows. That's just my opinion. If people like them and it works for them, fine. Everyone must find their own perfect fit, so to speak.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gaynor Minden Debate
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2001 8:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2001 12:01 am
Posts: 241
Just a comment re reshaping GM's shanks using a blow dryer: You can't ruin them this way. After they cool down, if you find you don't like how they're shaped, you can redo it with a dryer. There's no limit on how many times (well, no reasonable limit anyhow) you can reshape the shanks. My daughter wore them for about 1/2 year and reshaped them a number of times without any problem. Now, if only someone could figure out why she lost both big toenails during that time! She ultimately gave up on them for that reason.<P>I like the idea of the new technology. I hope other companies experiment and eventually put out new shoes too. I like to think of GM's as being the Beta version of whatever's coming along in the future: still kinks to work out in them but eventually everyone will wear safe shoes. Hey, I can dream...


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gaynor Minden Debate
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2001 5:15 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 13071
Location: San Diego, California, USA
How would we define "safe" shoes?


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gaynor Minden Debate
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2001 8:27 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2001 12:01 am
Posts: 241
LOL - I KNEW someone would bring that up, Basheva, and I was too lazy when I typed it in the wee hours last night to elaborate. So, I'll continue to be lazy and just say that I'd like to see a shoe that does everything GM's claim to do (someone above said it well for GM), but doesn't cause dancers' toes to go numb or toenails to bruise and fall off (as do GM's with oh so many dancers). <P>I LIKE the idea of a new style shoe, I like it that GM had the courage to go ahead and try, but I don't think they're there yet despite the fact that whenever I say that on a public board, someone says that the reason it didn't work for my daughter was because a) she wasn't fitted right, or b) there's something faulty in her technique. <P>My response to those comments continues to be, a) she was fitted by a GM representative both times, the second time being at their store in NYC and, b) Her technique at the time (a couple years ago) was good enough that she had no problems with any other well-fitted pointe shoe. Besides, if you have to have spotless technique in order to wear GM's, that would effectively wipe out the company's business!<P>That said, I still do wish GM well and hope that they fix whatever's causing those glitches. I also hope other pointe shoe companies have the courage to experiment. Just because cardboard, paper and glue is what's been done in the past doesn't mean it's what must be done in the future. Without change, life sure would be dull. And painful.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gaynor Minden Debate
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2001 8:55 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 13071
Location: San Diego, California, USA
I didn't realize that GM's had a history or at least somewhat of a reputation for causing bruised toe nails or cause nails to fall off.<P>As teachers what do we think would cause that? <P>Too much pressure across the face of the nail? <P>To much pressure around the sides of the nail?<P>To much pressure across the top of the nail?<P>What do you think?<p>[This message has been edited by Basheva (edited December 31, 2001).]


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gaynor Minden Debate
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2001 9:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 02, 1999 12:01 am
Posts: 2708
Location: Seattle, WA USA
Good questions! I know that GM is very particular about people being educated about the shoe and fitted correctly. I would also like to encourage innovation. It sometimes takes trial and error. Like JLL said, we have new shoes in sports, why not in ballet?One question: does anyone know any major, professional companies that use GM? For example, Pacific Northwest Ballet uses Freed's exclusively. Do any of our East coast members know whether ABT or NYCB uses GM; or any other big company for that matter? I know many students and pre-professionals use them, I was just curious about pros. <p>[This message has been edited by trina (edited December 31, 2001).]


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gaynor Minden Debate
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2001 9:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2001 12:01 am
Posts: 241
Hartford Ballet, when they were under Kirk Peterson, used GM's as a company shoe. Now that they're downsized into a much smaller company (Dance CT), I don't know what they use.<P>I sure would love to hear ballet teachers' explanations for the numb and bruised big toe phenomenon. My daughter's talked to many other dancers with the same problem from GM's and I've seen it mentioned repeatedly on ballet boards. <P>I'm a little testy about GM's dismissal of it as a problem (they invariably say you had a bad fitter). As a mom, I was very committed to making them work because I believed in their vision about placing less stress on the body. We did everything they said to do. When they said her first pair bruised her toenail because of a bad fit (it was their rep who came to her school and fitted her though), I took a day off from work in order to make the 2 and a half hour drive into NYC so she could be fitted by their expert fitter. I guess I just wish they'd be honest and say they're not for everyone. There's nothing wrong with that -the same can be said about any pointe shoe.<P>I'm still committed to the idea of GM's. I do know a couple dancers who use them successfully. I still wish they'd worked out for my own child.<P><BR>


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gaynor Minden Debate
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2001 10:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2001 12:01 am
Posts: 27
Hi! This is my first post on any of the criticaldance boards... so here goes nothing!<P>Anyway, I'm a 16-year-old dance student. I'm located in a rural area where the nearest place to get fitted for pointe shoes is a thirty-minute drive and even then the store only carries Capezios. If you want Freed, Gaynor Minden, Bloch, or whatever else, it's about 2 1/2 to 3 hours to Omaha, NE. Anyway, that being said, for beginners our dance teacher does order Pavlowas for beginning students, unless they say the are going to go get themselves fitted, which I think is reasonable. Many students have a good deal of success with these shoes, and some don't. After the first pair, she will recommend another shoe (usually only Capezio, since our studio orders shoes from the first store I mentioned).<P>Anyway, my friend and I have very, VERY strong feet and high arches! I am only on pointe once or twice a week and was whipping through a Pavlowa in 2 months! I like to believe my pointe teachnique is correct and so is my friends and we try very hard to lift up out of the boxes, but the shoes just weren't strong enough in the shanks.<P>So we tried Gaynor Mindens. When we first bought them, I think they had about 5 strengths to choose from, and the fitter recommended the second strongest shoe. Well, alas, even though the Gaynor Mindens are supposed to last 5 times the length of your "normal" pointe shoe, mine were shot in 6 months, my friends in only 5. Now we should be grateful, as 1/2 year is a great deal of time to be able to use a single pair of shoes, but remember we were only on them once a week at that time. So we went to the strongest shank. I have had great success with these shoes and am able to roll up/down in the center very well. My friend, has gone over these shoes as well, and will now try Blochs but that's another story.<P>As for the tips of the shoes wearing out, I have found that Duco cement, available at a hardware store, is a good solution. I simply spread a thin layer over the entire tip, overlapping a little onto the top, bottom, and sides of the shoe, then place the shoes in a tall drinking glass with the tips up. The bottle of glue says it needs 24-hours to set. I have not had any problems with even the satin tearing! But yes, my friend who didn't do this could certainly see the blue synthetic material after about a month.<P>As for making the vamp longer, I think Gaynor Minden makes "vamp elastic" which you can place over the metatarsals... have not tried it though.<P>Anyway, these boards are great and I look forward to reading and making my own posts! Thank you!


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gaynor Minden Debate
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2001 10:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 02, 1999 12:01 am
Posts: 2708
Location: Seattle, WA USA
Aide03, welcome! We really appreciate your personal story....!It's stories like this which really gives us good info and promotes more discussion! Thanks again for joining us!


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gaynor Minden Debate
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2001 10:59 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 13071
Location: San Diego, California, USA
Aide03, let me add my welcome to Trina's, , welcome to the board and thank you for your information.<P>Let's talk about what might make a toe nail get bruised and then fall off. Let's also assume for the sake of this discussion that the shoes were well fitted and that the dancer keeps her toe nails at the correct length.<P>In my opinion, two things would probably be the cause, impact (like relevés) and pressure. <P>Pressure might occur if the nail bed is more rounded. Some people have a more rounded nail bed than others. I have such nail beds on my fingers and toes. I think that increases the possibility of pressure against the nail bed. A person with this configuration would need a shoe with a more rounded rather than a flatter box.<P>I find this true in my street shoes too.<P>As for impact, just as it is possible that a student is not fully up on the platforms of the shoes, it is also possible that she may be just a bit too far forward on the platform. I don't think that would be visible to the naked eye - it would probably look like the platform was being correctly used. But it would make a difference to the toes/nails inside the shoes. This would especially be felt during steps that cause impact - like any kind of relevés.<P>What do you think?<P>I forgot to add - that I think bruising would come more from impact and numbness more from pressure.<p>[This message has been edited by Basheva (edited December 31, 2001).]


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gaynor Minden Debate
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2001 8:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2001 12:01 am
Posts: 9
Location: Louisville, KY USA
I have been the nurse for the American Academy of Ballet Summer School since 1992. I take care of over 350 dancers each summer. In my experience, there are more bruised and "lost" toenails from other brands of Pointe shoes than the Gaynor Minden. It is rare to see the problem in a dancer who wears the GMs regularly.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gaynor Minden Debate
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2002 5:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 13071
Location: San Diego, California, USA
Welcome to the board, Angie - it's great to have you join us.<P>To what do you attribute bruised and "lost" toe nails? and what do you advise these dancers to do?


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gaynor Minden Debate
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2002 3:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2001 12:01 am
Posts: 9
Location: Louisville, KY USA
Thanks for the welcome!<BR>The bruised and lost toenail problem seems to be a direct result of excess pressure on the toenails (either from the shape of the foot, incorrect cutting of nails, the fit of the shoes, poor technique, &/or increasing the amount of time on pointe too rapidly). We see this last one often at Summer School, as the dancers go from 4-5 hours a week to 3-4 hours a day.<BR>Obviously, there is not much to be done about the shape of the foot other than padding and taping techniques. A good podiatrist, preferably with some dance background, can provide the best advice on cutting. I always recommend that shoes be purchased at a retailer that sells many brands and has expert fitters. There is no one shoe that will work for everyone, as I'm sure you know. Technique is one that I leave up to the teachers--keep those corrections coming. Last, but not least, anyone planning on attending a ballet Summer School should gear up their class attendance instead of taking extended time off.<BR>If a bruise is developing, I recommend Arnica Gel applied to the toenail several times a day and also using some sort of gel padding on the toe (either Second Skin with Coban Wrap or one of the ready-to-use tubular gel pads).<BR>I am always interested in other therapies and I look forward to learning from all of you.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 69 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
The messages in this forum are posted by members of the general public and do not reflect the opinions or beliefs of CriticalDance or its staff.
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group