public forum
home forum magazine gallery links about faq courtesy
It is currently Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:38 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 113 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Yes, we in the West have SO much to teach Putin ...
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:01 am
Posts: 358
Location: Paris
about how to run an economy, don't youse all think?

walking up from the Arts et Métiers underground station to the Gare de l'Est, I've just counted seven people LIVING, I repeat, LIVING, in 'phone boxes in that 25 minute walk. And nine tents donated by Médecins du Monde along the same route, with about three persons living per tent.

La France n'est pas la France sans la

GRANDEUR

right?

Nor is England any better - we just HIDE it better.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:19 pm
Posts: 185
ripowam wrote:

Way off-topic here. .

The hostility to which I refer is the general mood of the Russian dance press, vide the response to Lacotte, and the attitudes of the artistic staff in the ballet. Vasiev in a recent interview in a Russian publication was asked about the company's recent bad or mixed reviews in the West and said, "It's not for the West tell us how to dance Petipa." I have been told many times by Russian dance journalists "You're from New York; you don't have any taste."


Whoa, hold the phone! I just have to interject here and I welcome other views.

Messr. Vaziev's comment is hypocritical considering how he's
murdering the Balanchine rep with mediocre and unsuitable casts. I for one, take great exception to how Mr. B's legacy is being treated at the Maryinsky Theatre. Where's the Balanchine Trust on this? If Vaziev & Assoc. choose not to put the company's best feet forward, ie. those who have MASTERED the ballets, as well as train/rehearse new casts in the correct style - the Trust needs to pull the plug.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 11:01 pm
Posts: 94
Location: NYC
I agree with you 100 % Cygne. The Balanchine performances I've seen recently at the Kirov have been under rehearsed and overstocked with underqualified proteges. One of the problems is that once the Balanchine Trust licenses a ballet for a certain amount of time, it no longer controls how the ballet is cast. And the host company is not required to allow Balanchine Trust stagers to conduct refresher rehearsals, or rehearse new casts.


Last edited by ripowam on Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:19 pm
Posts: 185
ripowam wrote:
I agree with you 100 % Cygne. The Balanchine performances I've seen recently at the Kirov have been under-rehearsed and overstocked with underqualified proteges. One of the problems is that once the Balanchine Trusts licenses a ballet for a certain amount of time, it no longer controls how the ballet is cast. And the host company is not required to allow Balanchine Trust stagers to conduct refresher rehearsals, or rehearse new casts.


Pardon me, but this information makes no sense. That's insane, Ripowam! I wish, (I HOPE) the Trust reconsiders this policy and reviews these codicils in the licensing terms, before the authorities are no
longer with us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 1999 11:01 pm
Posts: 19975
Location: London, England; Tallinn, Estonia
Interesting reagrding the Balanchine Trust involvement, or lack thereof. As far as I am aware, in N. America and Europe, William Forsythe only allows approved casts to dance his works ie the setters go back in for new casts. I wonder what his arrangement is with the Mariinsky?


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:30 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2001 12:01 am
Posts: 1738
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia
Forsythe operates the same at the Mariinsky. He selects initial casts, and new casts are coached by one of Forsythe's assistants (the past 3 years for the most part it has been Noah Gelber, with help also from Aaron Watkin before he took his new position). Each time new dancers learn the role, they're coached by Noah before they hit the stage; he also frequently re-rehearses old casts to adhere to Forsythean standards. There is a similar organization (its exact name escapes me at the moment -- the Forsythe Foundation? Trust?) that sends Noah to various companies that perform Forsythe works, to ensure the quality of the choreography is maintained with subsequent performances.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Omelette
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:30 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:01 am
Posts: 358
Location: Paris
And given the injury rate in that sort of Clockwork Orange choreography, they NEED fresh casts the whole time...

Can't make an omelette without breaking eggs...

Yummie


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Omelette
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:01 am
Posts: 358
Location: Paris
And given the injury rate in that sort of Clockwork Orange choreography, they NEED fresh casts the whole time...

Can't make an omelette without breaking eggs...

Yummie!

Because, Gang, the one thing we'se alls forgettin' here, is that there is an artistic Mafia, as well as a Mafia Mafia.

And that certain things are being rammed down Russia's throat, from outside.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 1999 11:01 pm
Posts: 19975
Location: London, England; Tallinn, Estonia
Quote:
And given the injury rate in that sort of Clockwork Orange choreography.


It's not the first time you have made such a claim, Kanter. Do you have any evidence for this or is it speculation?

I'm aware of the problems you face with much choreography post-Bournonville and your abhorrence for Balanchine etc etc. But for the record, Forsythe is rated exceptionally highly by most of the dance professionals I know. Thus, hypotheses about "artistic mafia" as a reason for his introduction to the Kirov rep are superfluous. The Kirov's Forsythe programme in London was one of the outstanding nights of dance I saw in 2005.

More recently, Scottish Ballet's performance of Forsythe's "Suite from Artifact" was given a rapturous reception by audiences and critics alike and may well be the best ballet I see in 2006. Given the shortage of outstanding choreographers around the world, it's surprising we don't see even more Forsythe.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: A speculator in fluffy pink tutus
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:01 am
Posts: 358
Location: Paris
Neither in stocks property, raw materials, strategic metals or minerals would I speculate : I don't believe in get-rich-at-the-expense of others.

On a number of occasions over the past twenty years, I've taken the time and trouble to consult orthopaedists, osteopaths, chiropractors, physiotherapists and sports-medicine experts on what is going on in the "ballet" at the present time.

So I am not just spouting a "fluffy pink tutu and pretty little satin pointe-shoe" speculation off the top of my grey and wrinkled head.

Anyway, we have sat down together and looked at photographs and film. In order to avoid any suspicion of corruption, these specialists all agreed to consult free of charge.

Their opinion of what passes for "choreography" at the present time, is, in the main, unprintable.

Some describe what they have seen as "legalised torture", others have said "ballet dancers today remind me of Bonzai - twisted and stunted", others have described blow by blow, the etiology of arthrosis of the major joints over a twenty-year period in the individuals they have observed on film or photograph.

Or, in another one of Derek Deane's immortal sayings: ballet is about "coping with the arthrosis afterwards".

Now, members of the public are perfectly free to "enjoy" seeing their fellow-man with his limbs being pulled out of their sockets.

And I am perfectly free to say that I do not enjoy it. I know what is being done to those people, and I also know what dancers will put up with to stay "in good" with Management, and to get a role, any role.

This has always tended to be an immature, infantilised profession, and it's getting worse, not better: as ever-more choreography is of the Clockwork Orange variety, people now retire at age 28 to bustle off and teach precisely what got them injured in the first place.

It's a vicious circle, with accent on the word vicious.

Now, someone may pop up with an exception - a 67 year old woman who can twist herself in a pretzel, smiling and eating a smoked-meat'n pickle Biggie on pumpernickel bread.

Good-o! With six billion people on the planet, even I am willing to believe that in China, perhaps, they have found six or seven people who can do that.

Be that as it may, and as an unredeemable weirdo - I come from Haunts of Coot and Fern, as the New Yorker Magazine would say - I believe in progress. Not regression.

Bashing people up, smashing the articulations, burning out the bod' and lurching towards retirement with an artificial hip at age 28, does not qualify as progress, not in my book anyway.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:27 am 
...


Last edited by fedora on Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:58 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 11:01 pm
Posts: 94
Location: NYC
There hasn't been a single Balanchine Trust stager in the Mariinsky for the last two years, and that explains a lot. The licensing arrangements for the Balanchine works really needs to change. The idea that Forsythe is regularly rehearsed by his own staff and Balanchine is not is just outrageous.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 1999 11:01 pm
Posts: 19975
Location: London, England; Tallinn, Estonia
I note your response Kanter and that you do not appear to have any evidence of actual injury to dancers. Thus, your comments on injury rates and that these are causing the need for new casts for the Forsythe rep are indeed speculation.


Last edited by Stuart Sweeney on Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 11:01 pm
Posts: 1639
Location: London UK
In Kanter's defence, I have to say that after almost six months intensive treatment for my slipped disc with perhaps the most famous dance osteopath in Europe, I learnt a great deal from her about the dangers of the kinds of extreme technique required by choreographers such as Forsythe and his ilk. Present practices are providing this lady with a great deal of work right now.

You don't have to look far to discover dancers with injuries that are apparent on stage if you know what to look for. I imagine it is outside the Criticaldance 'rule of courtesy' to start naming names.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:55 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:01 am
Posts: 358
Location: Paris
This is an Internet forum, not a medical journal.

We are talking about severe arthrosis of the hip joint, in particular, as well as arthrosis of the ankle joint, not to speak of damage to the ligaments and tendons. Stretched-out ligaments are permanently damaged. Permanently. They do not stretch back.

In any event, there are several thousand pages readily available on Internet about dance injuries, and five or six foundations have been established that deal with the issue.

Anyone willing to go to the trouble of discussing, at length, with medical specialists, will readily find out what is going on.

But don't ask specialists attached to a ballet troupe. Their livelihood depends on their having no opinion - at least in public - at all.

Many choreographers do not appear to care what happens to people six months down the road, after they've collected their cheque and moved on to the next opera house.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 113 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
The messages in this forum are posted by members of the general public and do not reflect the opinions or beliefs of CriticalDance or its staff.
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group