public forum
home forum magazine gallery links about faq courtesy
It is currently Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:44 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 247 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 12:01 am
Posts: 1451
Location: San Francisco, CA
It's so interesting that for, lo, these 13 pages of forum posts, it seems Nikolai Tsiskaridze has incited passions one way or the other.

I'd like to ask however, since the discussion has taken on an edgy tone, if we could all perhaps take a deep breath, perhaps even a break?

While we certainly encourage lively discussion on the CD forums, and love to see various points of view (how boring would it be if we all liked the same things?) all discussions should observe the posted courtesy rules, always avoiding gossip and hearsay of course.

Thanks everyone for keeping that in mind.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 1:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2002 11:01 pm
Posts: 25
Location: Moscow, Russia
I’d like to tell that any person who has satellite channel MEZZO could see WHAT IS TSISKARIDZE in May, 19th – Roland Petit’s The Queen of Spades was shown on MEZZO that day. Live from the Bolshoi! French TV company BEL AIR is preparing DVD Video with this ballet and Passacalia in addition which were recorded in Moscow in May, 17 and 19. I think we could buy and see it about in a year or less.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Russian Ballet
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2002 11:01 pm
Posts: 39
Location: Ancient Egypt
Xoreograf wrote:
And to Tahor, referring to a person as a god is a very scary thought. There are many talented artists in Moscow, the difference between those that become stars and those that don't is simply a matter of money, and the connections one has to give the money to, period. Visiting Moscow is not the same as living here.


By way of a correction, I said that Nikolai is worshipped in Moscow by other people as if he were a God, people's reactions to him are as such. That is not the same as saying he is a God.

What I said was clear, what you keep repeatedly saying is not. You are constantly making suggestions that Nikolai has bribed his way up to achieve his present status. The truth is Nikolai was plucked from the corps at a young age by Grigorovitch who recognised his talent, not the colour of his money. After all at that time he did not have any. He was living humbly in a one room bed sit with his mother. It is nonsense to suggest that in Nikolai's case it was through corruption.

Clearly I don't live in moscow but believe me I am fully aware of the way corruption works in Russia. It is used as a weapon upon successful people by their detractors who claim corruption and bribery even when someone has been successful based on merit. The truth is that whilst some people undoubtedly get to where they are in Moscow through money and corruption, some people in fact get there through art and through merit, as in the case of Nikolai. Otherwise your argument would suggest that by default everyone in Moscow achieving a position of success has done so through money alone - if that is your argument it must include all the other great artists you mention from Moscow's past such as Vasiliev, maybe it also includes you! That is the logic of your argument.

In truth Nikolai's dancing has nothing at all to do with money, and everything to do with talent.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:18 pm
Posts: 21
Location: USA
There is certainly a touch of scandal around the name of Tsiskaridze. Just like around the name of Volochkova. But it doesn't make him less of a dancer. Russians are very passionate about their artists. Intensely heated discussions always seem to arise whenever their dancers are concerned. But frankly speaking, I don't understand what the fuss is all about. Tsiskaridze is good, but I've seen better!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:01 am
Posts: 186
Location: Great Britain
I am so glad that nobody on this forum in my memory was so inappreciative of dancers’ work, talents, profession, after all, that dared to write sweepingly: he “is good, but I've seen better!” God save dancers from such praises followed by a condemnation sounding as the final and irrevocable verdict.
The truth is that no one, “dancing bunnies” including, can tell us who of the known dancers is better. There will always be admirers who appreciate some particular individual qualities of their favorite dancers and dislike performances of other people’s favourite dancers. I know and respect a very serious critic who, to my dismay, never liked one of the greatest ballerinas of the 20th century and at the same time adores another famous ballerina who is reviled by another famous critic. So what is the point for “bunnies” to declare: "he is good but I’ve seen better"? It’s an absolutely futile statement. What is better for one can be inadequate for someone else and vise versa.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:18 pm
Posts: 21
Location: USA
As a professional dancer, I tend to see technical faults where others see only perfection. I don't care for Nikolai mannerisms. And what about his partnering technique? It's rather poor, don't you think? But I do admire his raw talent. It's there. He has great flexibility for a man and a powerful jump. But then, he is not the only dancer with such qualities, is he?

Having said that, I do believe that Tsiskaridze is somewhat overrated, perhaps because he is Russian. So I will stick to my guns, if coda doesn't terribly mind, that is.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: ....
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2002 11:01 pm
Posts: 36
If you, DancingBunny, wrote your posting on a Russian forum, the readers there could at least prove immediately that there is no comparison between Tsiskaridze and Volochkova whatsoever, apart from the fact that both are famous in Russia. If you, with utmost honesty to yourself, look at what was written in the Russian press about that ballerina (a lot of that by the way was quite exaggerated), you must admit that your comparison “just like around a name of…” can not stand a chance. However, you – for some reason – chose to make this comparison.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 4:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 11:01 pm
Posts: 1640
Location: London UK
Going slightly off topic here I would like to point out that you don't have to be a professional dancer to be able to spot technical errors when watching dance. In fact there are very few performances free of errors of some kind, something that most dancers are willing to admit

While in Copenhagen for the Bournonville Festival recently, I was very amused when a Danish critic said he always replies when asked if he has ever danced: "Yes, but not for Money".

And by the way Dancing Bunny, quite a number of posters to Criticaldance are, or have been professional dancers and quite a few others work or have worked in the dance world in other capacities.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 5:10 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:18 pm
Posts: 21
Location: USA
Ladies, apart from rumors and scandals, real or imaginary, I don't understand why Russians tend to create mass hysteria around certain dancers. An unfortunate trend that seems to start flowing profusely to the West. Tsizkaridze doesn't dance like God and he is certainly no God, so that no criticism can ever touch his stage persona. He is a brilliant solo dancer, but a poor partner. No matter what role he portrays on stage, it's always Nikolai first: "I am the best! Look at me!". He reminds me more of a movie star than a classical dancer. Honestly!

PS. Olechka, you were not being serious when you referred us to the Russian press as a reliable source of information, were you?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: ...
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 3:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2002 11:01 pm
Posts: 36
Strange as it seems to you, DancingBunny, I am serious about the press. I even mentioned that a lot of what was written about that ballerina by the press "was quite exaggerated", including some "scandals".

Tsiskaridze, on the contrary, has not been involved in scandals. This is where you got it wrong. However, if you find press reports unreliable and your conclusions are made on rumours, then I can not continue the discussion. [By the way, if there were rumours, they would have found their way to the press, I am sure, especially to the Russian press.]

"He reminds me more of a movie star than a classical dancer".

He is a brilliant classical dancer and my opinion of him should not be qualified as "mass hysteria".

If he reminds a movie star, is it so bad? Being a dancer would YOU like to look as a movie star?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:01 am
Posts: 358
Location: Paris
DB has written above,

"I don't understand why Russians tend to create mass hysteria around certain dancers. An unfortunate trend that seems to start flowing profusely to the West".

Unfortunate trend, indeed.

A trend, that shews to go yer that we are all involved in a rather immature art form. Discussing people, instead of ideas.

However, history lies ahead of us as they say. Look on the bright side. We won't be there to see it, but it WILL happen.

One day, the art form will grow up.

In the meantime....

Were choreography rather more thoughtful, were the libretti for ballets other than fluff, and did dancers and audiences take a somewhat more enlightened view of our respective mission, one might find things to discuss after a performance other than how TEERRIFFICK X, Y or Z was.

As do others in the art world, I entertain personal views about M. Tsiskaridze as a dancer (personally, am not at all partial to his work, that I find very extreme), but as he was seriously injured 18 months ago (and we are told that he is a most amiable sort of fellow off-stage), I shall muzzle any untoward remarks at this point in time.

In any event, it's not the man's fault. I blame his professors, who allowed him - and so many hundreds of others whose careers will be cut off before their day - to move so far beyond the natural ambitus of articulation. And I blame the choreographers, who take advantage of it all.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:18 pm
Posts: 21
Location: USA
KANTER,

Thank you for trying to infuse a measure of civility into the current "debate". You've expressed a very sober view of the state of ballet affairs. I completely agree with your evaluation of this art form the way it exists today in general and and the way it effects Tsiskaridze's dancing manner in specific. Americans will soon have the opportunity to form their own opinion about this dancer as the Bolshoi is scheduled to come on tour this Summer. It's my sincere hope that theatergoers will have a chance to express their own opinion based on individual impressions from the performances rather than the pre-tour "wow" publicity and the rumor mill surrounding this artist's name.

Another unfortunate trend that seems to be migrating from Russian ballet sites is extreme rudeness with which opinions are expressed and the tendency to critique participants rather than concentrating on the subject of discussions.

PS. KANTER, I thoroughly enjoyed your individual web site. It was worth visiting this board just to find out about its existence.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:50 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:01 am
Posts: 358
Location: Paris
Well, well, DB, it is a refreshing change to be addressed with such civility on this particular Board, the more so, as I've just been accused of "psychosis", etc. on the "Danser en français" thread. This, for having delicately suggested that ganging up on Mlles. X, Y or Z, or Messrs. L, M or N, year in, year out, might - incredible as that might seem, eh ? - harm their reputation.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 11:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 11:01 pm
Posts: 94
Location: NYC
Dancing Bunny you are so right. I am tired of the coersion campaigns launched by the Russian companies. It's happening right now at the Kirov with Obratsova, among others. She's an appealing young dancer -- but a new Ulanova????!!! It's a little early to say.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:18 pm
Posts: 21
Location: USA
ripowam wrote:
It's happening right now at the Kirov with Obratsova, among others. She's an appealing young dancer -- but a new Ulanova????!!! It's a little early to say.

Kirov must be doing a really bad job out of it, 'cos I've never even heard this name before. Who is Oratsova?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 247 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
The messages in this forum are posted by members of the general public and do not reflect the opinions or beliefs of CriticalDance or its staff.
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group