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 Post subject: Re: Keefer Case and Body Image - BIG Forum
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2001 10:05 am 
VERY WISE TRINA.


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 Post subject: Re: Keefer Case and Body Image - BIG Forum
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2001 10:06 am 
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Location: El Granada, CA, USA
The Russians, French, British and Danes have made a science out of this exact process. Take a look at the POB website. It is all very clearly spelled out for every level. <P>And I will repeat that there are certain structural necessities for ballet that if they are not there in an 8-yr old are DEFINITELY not going to be there in a 16-yr old.


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 Post subject: Re: Keefer Case and Body Image - BIG Forum
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2001 12:19 pm 
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Location: El Granada, CA, USA
Trina, you are right about the responsibilities as a teacher, but the responsibility of a professional ballet school attached to a company is to train ballet dancers for that company and other professional ballet companies, not to educate any child (or child's parent) who wants ballet training. There is a difference in mission and goals between the school that does not require an audition and the school that does.


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 Post subject: Re: Keefer Case and Body Image - BIG Forum
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2001 12:29 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 1999 12:01 am
Posts: 2708
Location: Seattle, WA USA
LMTech, I was referring to teaching philosophy in general, not specifically professional schools. <BR>I must re-emphasize, from my own experience of teaching thousands of kids. Children are not machines---what about the kid of 18 who's been training for 10 years, seriously? Maybe she's got perfect legs, perfect feet, perfect "line". She's been the teacher's favorite for years, and the apple of her parent's eye. She's had the "lead" in all the ballets for years. All of a sudden, she decides she wants to go to med school. Or, she meets the guy of her dreams and elopes (anyone seen "The Red Shoes" around here?) with him. She decides she never wants to dance again. She gets injured, God forbid. This stuff DOES happen. I can't tell you all the times I've SEEN it happen. Of course, I know, the business of professional schools is to ferret out talent and cultivate it. HOWEVER, if you read most dance programs carefully (this was mentioned somewhere else, I think) you will see that usually roughly HALF(I'm talking US here, not Europe) of the company members are trained at their respective company schools. Those other dancers come from sowewhere else, no? Some of them even (heavens to Betsy) may have started at the "dance studio around the corner". <p>[This message has been edited by trina (edited July 07, 2001).]


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 Post subject: Re: Keefer Case and Body Image - BIG Forum
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2001 5:27 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 23, 1999 11:01 pm
Posts: 1057
Location: SF CA
Hello Auntie, yes I agree I do see a future for you here on the web as I think that sometimes the not so PC truth needs to be shed on what it really takes to be a real professional dancer in the world today. I don't know the Keffer child personaly, but I do know the school that she was with that was mentioned in the press. It was where I was trained. I saw her perform the same Clara in the Nutcracker that I danced for way too many years. I won't say that she won't dance anywhere, but I would not encourage her tword a school such as SAB, SFB, or ABT. The feet, legs, poise, musicality, and that special something are just not there. Example.....When you watched Joanna Berman and Cynthia Harvey as children you KNEW they would go the distance.


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 Post subject: Re: Keefer Case and Body Image - BIG Forum
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2001 7:23 pm 
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Location: SF Bay Area
Thanks, Lucy, for taking the time out to post. It's always an honor when you share your expertise and experiences with us.


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 Post subject: Re: Keefer Case and Body Image - BIG Forum
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2001 12:37 pm 
WELL apparently their were folks who didnt believe LAUREN ANDERSON, Black Principle of the Houston ballet was going the distance either.<BR> If you read the back issue of DANCE mag(the one with LA on the cover)as she was developing an instructor"gently" told her maybe she should try Broadway dancing instead. She refused and molded her body closer to the type they wanted;and you know what/ She STILL doesnt look like the "ideal" dancer;she has a build more like tennis star Venus Williams.She's described as a 'shapely ballerina".<BR> Yet she gets rave reviews and has danced on the Russian stage(and applauded!!!)<BR>There was an interview of young ballerinas on Boston University radio after the Guenther law suit appeared;one ballerina said that when she tried out at the BB that there were girls whohad very good technique but didnt make it;there were ones who were"just okay" yet they were chosen because they had "the look".<BR> Do dancers go the distance because they have the look teachers crave for and they will spend all the time they can cultivating them into dancers;are dancers like this little girl not given a second look because of this existing prejudice?(predudice is not PC)<BR> Doesnt ANYONE remember this same thing being said about Black dancers not being able to dance ballet;or is it now forgotten because Dance Theater of Harlem proved them WRONG(barely any of those women have that look)


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 Post subject: Re: Keefer Case and Body Image - BIG Forum
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2001 1:26 pm 
DTH is in a class by itself. They can do as they please...Arthur Mitchell, however, has The Look...


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 Post subject: Re: Keefer Case and Body Image - BIG Forum
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2001 2:52 pm 
I think Ms Keefer has by now made her point; otherwise she should pick another ballet school for her child--possibly in another county/city(like the Marin ballet school that emphasizes they DO NOT judge by body type)depending on how far will she go for her child's training.<BR> EVEN if she miraculously wins this case,there will be bad blood between her and the SFB heads,and her daughter will probably be badly neglected. BIG NAME school doesnt necessarily mean the BEST school,and from my own internet search there are many lesser known schools whose teachers are not only are well trained but inspirational;also schools in which the child will only have herself to compete with--not other students(some schools are emphasizing a non competitive atmosphere as well).<BR> I feel its better for parents to check out ballet schools carefully BEFORE paying fees and allowing their girls to audition;find out things like "who gets picked", "what do the students look like", "is there DIVERSITY in the school/classes?" Maybe they could somehow sit in on an audition.......DO INTERNET SEARCH and carefully read the schools mission/objectives(that can say or not say alot).<BR> OTHERWISE SHES WAITING FOR GODOT.....


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 Post subject: Re: Keefer Case and Body Image - BIG Forum
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2001 2:53 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 13071
Location: San Diego, California, USA
Then there is Judith Jamison - wasn't the ballet her first love?<P>If so, it's ballet's loss that she was kept from scaling its walls.<P>And the world's gain to see her "Cry"...


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 Post subject: Re: Keefer Case and Body Image - BIG Forum
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2001 3:04 pm 
Thanks again Basheva!(mentioning JJ)


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 Post subject: Re: Keefer Case and Body Image - BIG Forum
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2001 12:58 pm 
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Location: El Granada, CA, USA
I think Judith Jamison's spirit would never have been adequately used in any ballet. Modern was always the better place for her. The little Keefer is the same way.


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 Post subject: Re: Keefer Case and Body Image - BIG Forum
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2001 1:22 pm 
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Location: San Diego, California, USA
Good pointe, LMCTech....but would Judith Jamison have chosen modern initially? <P>From what I remember from reading her bio - her first choice was ballet. In my opinion, ideally she should have been allowed to explore that world, that world should have accepted her. Then, later if SHE chose to move to modern dance, so be it.<P>But the choice should have been fully hers, instead of choices being made for her because of body type and/or color. She surely had the talent.


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 Post subject: Re: Keefer Case and Body Image - BIG Forum
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2001 1:26 pm 
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Location: El Granada, CA, USA
Well, know we get into the do you choose modern or does it choose you question. Which is an entirely different thread.<P>Besides no one is saying little Keefer can't do ballet. She is just not appropriate for SFBS at this time.


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 Post subject: Re: Keefer Case and Body Image - BIG Forum
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2001 3:42 pm 
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Location: El Granada, CA, USA
Basheva - you make an interesting point. Would Ms Jamison have chosen ballet initially. Do you mean as a child? I think very few children have that choice. Maybe a kid here in SF has that choice, but I never did growing up in a rural town. It was ballet or nothing.


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