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 Post subject: Young dancers use of discussion sites
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2000 5:21 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 12:01 am
Posts: 4725
Location: Australia
this thread has sprung from danni's 'Turnout' thread, where she asked an intelligent question, got what she rightly called a 'generous reply' (from TUK) and then considered and commented thoughtfully (as did others) on the issue in question.<P>TUK said there:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Over the last couple of months I have accessed quite a few of the boards where young dancers are constantly seeking advice. <P>In this time I have become very concerned not just with some of the issues that are raised, the disturbing trend towards seeking new dieting hints is one, but with many of the answers that are given. <P>That these tend to be very brief and lack detail seems to be indicative of how this form of communication has developed, but what is far more worrying is that much of the advice is fallacious and some may even be positively detrimental.<P>Please do not get me wrong here, I am not on some one-person crusade to clear up inaccuracies on the internet, but I do feel that if I am going to contribute to the understanding of dance on this media I want to do so in a way that gives far more substantive information which is, to the best of my knowledge, accurate.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>my response included this comment:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>what's been getting to ME at one other board which i know we both frequent, is the bratty tone of "I want this NOW - so GIVE it to me", in relation to asking technical questions. <P>i saw one, this am, that was headlined something like 'desperate info needed in one hour!!!!!' (i think it was all in CAPS, as well) - and it was a student going to a tryout in one hour, wanting to know how to improve her 'switch leaps and fouettés'(BOTH spelled wrong, of course)!<P>no further comment......or i'll go into a rant! Image <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>to which TUK responded:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>...I have been greatly saddened by the tone and content of the boards. ...When I answer questions there it is always by e-mail, but I am willing to bet that the kind of answers I give are not at all welcome. I am just very glad to be able to come to this site where logical and informed debate still holds sway.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>rather than diverting danni's 'Turnout' thread, i would like to discuss HERE the internet culture re dance learning, and the issue TUK has highlighted above.<P>two boards where i see this in evidence are:<P>*i have removed the first link from here, because, since yesterday, THAT board has deleted much of the content referred to here. i assume this is for these very reasons we are discussing!<P><A HREF="http://www.dancersspotlight.com/disc2_frm.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.dancersspotlight.com/disc2_frm.htm</A> <P>this is NOT an attack on either of these boards, or any others - i am just linking to these as an exanmple of where a lot of young people are expecting instant answers to technique (and other, sometimes trivial, sometimes dreadfully serious) questions. i imagine the controllers of such boards are just as frustrated and concerned as we are, about this issue.....<P>a little caution: we should stay away from discussing the actual BOARDS; instead, looking at the ISSUE this trend raises - if you'd like to?<P><p>[This message has been edited by grace (edited July 30, 2000).]

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 Post subject: Re: Young dancers use of discussion sites
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2000 5:34 am 
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I am not on some one-person crusade to clear up inaccuracies on the internet<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>What a shame!


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 Post subject: Re: Young dancers use of discussion sites
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2000 7:06 pm 
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Location: Gulfport, MS
Hello everyone,<BR>I am new to this board, but this topic really caught my attention. I have also frequented one of the boards mentioned above by grace and feel that I need to vent concerning some of the issues raised. I have been saddened, maddened, and disgusted by the rantings and ravings of some seemingly spoiled "kids". I can actually tolerate some of the silly questions and nonesense posted by these youngsters...However, I can not tolerate the fact that young people are answering some of these questions on topics such as diet, pointe shoes, technique, performance, conditioning, etc..(The list goes on and on). This is truly frightening. To think that one could actually try to use some of this mis-information is really quite scary. Not only do the young people take part in this, but so do their parents!! That is even more frightening. The lack of respect shown on some boards, while hiding behind the cloak of anonymity that the internet provides, simply amazes me and makes me want to quit this medium altogether (meaning the internet). I have been teaching ballet for many years and would not begin to give advice on a topic in which I either have to experience or expertise. I'm not sure how this type of thing can be policed. I don't know the answer, but it certainly concerns me and many others. <P>Sincerely,<P>cherylb


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 Post subject: Re: Young dancers use of discussion sites
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2000 8:04 pm 
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Location: London, England; Tallinn, Estonia
cherylb, welcome to the site and many thanks for your thoughtful comments on this issue. As I understand it there is a similar problem on the medical bulletin boards and I believe that an accreditation scheme has been set up, so that people will have some idea whether they can trust the info. supplied.<P>This does not seem likely with the much smaller scale dance bulletin boards, so the solution lies with the individual sites having moderators with the necessary skills and then monitoring postings fequently and carefully. <P>The worst example of an unmoderated board that I ever saw was the old ENB one which was unmoderated and the young folk just hurled abuse at eachother. When ENB realised what was going on they shut it down; the only solution when things had got as bad as they had.<P>Hope you find criticaldance an interesting read and that we see more contributions from you. <p>[This message has been edited by Stuart Sweeney (edited July 30, 2000).]


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 Post subject: Re: Young dancers use of discussion sites
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2000 8:33 pm 
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Location: Australia
dear cheryl, GREAT Image to see you here, and thanks for the emails! Image<P>stuart: fascinating information! i can see how this becomes dreadfully important in regard to medical matters.<P>in the dance context, safety is one concern (as cheryl has highlighted), people's reputations are another; i'm sure there are other potential problems i haven't thought of.<P>one factor which stuart identified in an email to me, re such boards as these two i happen to have chosen above, are that the format does not encourage or support ongoing serious discussion - because once new topics come up ahead of it, the topic you may be interested in, goes further and further down the board....so, that, in itself, encourages a culture of instant answers, and disposable - dreadfully monotonously REPEATABLE! - topics.<P>i agree with stuart that, apart from choosing a structure where such a pitfall is avoided (which we have done), it then comes down to vigilant suitable people as moderators. <P>in this regard i feel really proud of the team we have at CD - as well as taking their tasks seriously, and being very knowledgeable and articulate in varied fields/aspects related to dance, they also have different tastes, are tolerant people, and all have great senses of humour. and so far, i am unaware of any who don't like cats! (most important consideration!<P> \\\\-^ ^<BR> >> (c) (c) <<<BR> ------=<P>oops, the reply form format wouldn't let me space out my symbols here, so i had to experiment with adding a body coming from the left.....<BR>here's to lots more involvement from YOU, here, cheryl! Image<BR> <p>[This message has been edited by grace (edited August 01, 2000).]

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 Post subject: Re: Young dancers use of discussion sites
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2000 4:58 am 
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I have to admit that I am also a cat lover! Must be something in the dance genes! We have four in my house, or should I say there are four people living in their house!<P>Happy to be here.


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 Post subject: Re: Young dancers use of discussion sites
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2000 11:18 am 
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cheryl: "Must be something in the dance genes!" - i don't think you're far wrong there!<P>i think it has to do with appreciating sensuality, movement, and the sensuality OF movement.<P>btw, apparently david is a DOG person! Image

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 Post subject: Re: Young dancers use of discussion sites
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2000 11:19 am 
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oops - 'david' is Tuk, or vice-versa...

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 Post subject: Re: Young dancers use of discussion sites
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2000 3:30 pm 
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Location: Seattle, WA USA
Cheryl--I agree wholeheartedly with your comments on other boards and also on "giving advice"...which is one of the reasons I love criticaldance...we try to respect different opinions, yet the fact we have mature moderators (reasonably speaking!!-heehee)helps to keep things in some semblance of order.<BR>Also, in regards to "advising". Whenever a student asks advice about an injury or illness..I always preface my advice with "I'm not a doctor"...I think it's important to be clear about this...there's a lot of fuzzy headed thinking out there, and a lot of "snake-oil cures" for various things...which sometimes can create bad "vibes"


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 Post subject: Re: Young dancers use of discussion sites
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2000 4:17 pm 
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Location: Alaska
I guess some of that kind of makes me wonder if people on other boards do not ask their instructors the questions they pose to other people online. It's certainly normal to learn from our peers, but the Internet changes that idea a little, and rather than asking the other people in the changing room what kinds of tights they use I can broadcast my query across the world.<P>It's not just the safety issues, but there are other ways to get hornswaggled on the computer. An example - in a thread about "what kind of shoes should I buy" up pops a reply which I read as an ad from the beginning. While written as though "teen to teen" it was just way too canned to be real. Then, when I saw the same username a couple comments down she was yakking about the same brand of shoes. I could be wrong, but it seemed fake, and it made me wonder. Especially because I noticed the site had changed a little and there was a special thing saying "no commercial messages", and wondered if this was someone's way around the new rules.<P>Anyway - back to my first point, which was that I wonder if kids are ONLY asking these questions on the boards or are ALSO asking their teachers. Some of the people visiting this (criticaldance) forum must be teachers - are your students coming in saying "I learned about so-and-so on the Internet"?


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 Post subject: Re: Young dancers use of discussion sites
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2000 6:25 pm 
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good points prisanh and trina: <P>prisanh - none of my students are very active online yet, despite my repeated encouragements, so i haven't had that happen.<P>and "hornswaggled": never come across THAT one before!<P>trina: agree with you. sensible advice. i will say, in response to you and to a number of others up above, that i have RARELY, if ever, seen actual dangerous information.<P>i HAVE seen:-<P>1. vague noncommittal commentary, where in fact there IS evidence that something being asked about, IS harmful - but we can't all know everything...,<P>2. advice from kids to kids along the lines of 'go for it & here's MY idea how',...when it might be better to say - no, DON'T go for it - IF you HAVE to ASK that question, then you're not ready to do it...<P>however, i have also seen a veritable panoply of excellent advice, most notably and consistently from victoria leigh and mel johnson, who are hard to fault. i've learned from them, and i hope they've learned from me... Image<P>the internet is changing the way we do everything...well, a lot of things, anyway.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by grace (edited August 02, 2000).]

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 Post subject: Re: Young dancers use of discussion sites
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2000 7:20 pm 
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For the record, it's not that other places out there are BAD, they just don't suit me as well as criticaldance does. Image


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 Post subject: Re: Young dancers use of discussion sites
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2000 4:47 pm 
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agree, prisanh - my feeling has always been that (like other things in life) people will gravitate to the board or boards where they feel most comfortable.<P>i LOVED one other board - but they didn't love ME! Image here, i feel appreciated, and it's a great experience. there are other boards that i go to also, to keep a broad perspective, precisely BECAUSE different people go to different boards.<P>it's a big world out there! even the dance world - which many of us are used to experiencing as quite a 'small' world, in our own geographical settings.

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 Post subject: Re: Young dancers use of discussion sites
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2000 11:20 am 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
I echo the concerns raised by all of you! Thankfully my own 13 year old hasn't discovered some of these sites yet!<P>I recently noticed something on one of the other boards which was alarming, but not necessarily dance related. A teenager had written in a number of times, each time displaying or describing some sign of emotional disturbance. And, being the responsible person (!) that I am I said nothing. Things over there are so easily misinterpreted, barbs fly and tempers flare...not to mention that I know really very little about the entire situation. Sort of like trying to "treat" an injury sight unseen. At any rate, she mentioned that she had just been discharged from the hospital, so I hope this means there is a psychiatrist involved.<P>Now that we are such a high-tech society we do indeed walk a very thin line...too much access/too little?<P>A personal lesson to me about limiting the amount of time my daughter spends cruising about the internet...


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