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 Post subject: Toxic Envy
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2000 5:34 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 12:01 am
Posts: 4725
Location: Australia
from danceinsider - a very interesting read about competition, jealousy and envy (particularly for women), about each dancer's "place in the food chain" Image ...by psychotherapist Anne Wennerstrand<BR> <A HREF="http://www.danceinsider.com/advice.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.danceinsider.com/advice.html</A> <P>note that more of the articles in this psychology series are linked to, at the bottom of that page.

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 Post subject: Re: Toxic Envy
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2000 6:13 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 11:01 pm
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Location: USA
That's a good one Grace. I particularly liked the link to "When are you going to stop dancing and get a real job?"<P>By some standards, I *still* don't have a real job. LOL.


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 Post subject: Re: Toxic Envy
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2000 6:30 am 
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Location: Australia
yes - *I* still don't have a 'real' job, either....sigh.....

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 Post subject: Re: Toxic Envy
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2000 6:51 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 13071
Location: San Diego, California, USA
I remember someone looked at me in great surprise and asked " you get paid to dance?"<P>Well, yes,..........why not?<P>It just never occurred to this person that anyone would get paid to dance.


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 Post subject: Re: Toxic Envy
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2001 12:15 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 12:01 am
Posts: 498
Location: neworleans, louisiana
Did that 30-year-old dancer respond, as she passed back the gravy boat, "Talk about not getting any younger -- isnt' it about time you broke your hip, Dad?"<P>(Hiss, seethe, hiss.)<P>People with unfulfilled dreams breathing down the necks of their offspring who dare for fulfillment, if not money ... Then again, Dad may be speaking from a place of fear, wondering if his daughter will be able to support herself enough to live healthily and safely. As long as that young woman isn't hitting Dad up for cash, she should be encouraged and admired.<P>Now -- I do know a woman, older than I, who purports to make her living from dance, but very vocally bemoans how underpaid artists are and hits up her senior citizen mom who is on fixed income. This woman is past the big 50 and has a nursing degree but is bent on doing dance full time no matter how much she poor mouths. It's a PAIN to listen to. <P>The fact is, that I could still earn a living from dance alone -- from teaching or from performing. But to earn the amount of $$$$ I would need to feel secure, I would also have to teach more classes than I want to take on physically at this time in my life. The physical demands also preclude me from performing full time (in this instance, the majority would be lecture dems for schools). So, when I went back to teaching and performing after years as a news reporter, I chose to do so on a part-time basis, alternating with my legal work. I'm just pointing out a factor that isn't always understood -- recognizing that even dance can become a drudge when there's too much of it at a point in your life when less of it could mean much more enjoyment. This meant a real shift in my ego -- knowing what was most important was that I felt healthier and happier by simply taking class at this time and being able to answer with a relaxed smile when people ask, "Oh, you're not performing any more -- don't you miss it?" ETC ETC ETC<P>The woman discussed in the article seems to be at just the right place for her at this time. It's too bad anyone has to dampen her spirits about her relatively minimal financial success and her great personal success. <BR>


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 Post subject: Re: Toxic Envy
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2001 2:30 pm 
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Location: San Diego, California, USA
Financial success and personal success are entirely subjective, it would seem to me, and the only real meaning of either, is the meaning that each of us assigns to it. To assign our value of the meaning of success to another person is spurious. <P>Envy is a self imposed condition. And a self imposed affliction, which becomes a barrier to contentment. Have I always succeeded in overcoming this? Nope. <P>


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 Post subject: Re: Toxic Envy
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2001 2:07 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 12:01 am
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Location: Australia
more from this dance psychologist:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.danceinsider.com/advice.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.danceinsider.com/advice.html</A>

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 Post subject: Re: Toxic Envy
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2001 5:35 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 130
Location: Pa, USA
I agree completely with Basheva that personal success and financial success are two entirely different aspects in life, however *S* I've found that if my definition of personal success is acceptable to ME, my level of financial success is acceptable as well Image <P>As far as the Real Job Syndrome--I think this is true of most people outside the arts-world who depend on big companies (non-dance related) for their paychecks...I have noticed that MOST people who ask me when I'm getting a "real job" are women--probably women who are envious themselves that I'm in control of my time and how I spend it and that I love my job. Love it, love it, love it!<P>In my situation I do live solely off my studio--not my husband's income (he is an artist too!) or any help from my parents. I think this itself causes another level of envy as people are seeing you do what you love and succeed at it. In our family we do not have three television sets, but we don't need or want them--our success is not in "do we have what they have?" but "do we have what we need?" If you apply this to your career and realize that you often DO have what you need (and if you don't love it you should change it) then you don't need what "they" have.<P>feeling as if I've wandered a bit off the original thread *S*<BR>Jan


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 Post subject: Re: Toxic Envy
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2001 12:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 1999 12:01 am
Posts: 2708
Location: Seattle, WA USA
Quite an emotional topic. Ironically, often the people who are "supposed" to support us, ie. family and friends, do just the opposite. Plant seeds of insecurity and self-doubt. <BR>To really earn a decent income as a teacher/artist, in the american society, anyway, one must be very resourceful diversified and do constant, lifetime learning, to avoid burnout and keep growing. Also, don't get injured!!! How is it in other countries, I'm curious?


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 Post subject: Re: Toxic Envy
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2001 12:54 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 24, 1999 11:01 pm
Posts: 19975
Location: London, England; Tallinn, Estonia
Re. burn-out therapy, trina, have you read about the 'Jeremy James play-time award' for creative artists who need a break from creation?<P>Here's the topic where it is discussed:<P><A HREF=../../../ubb/Forum5/HTML/000406.html>Jeremy James tribute</A> <BR> <P><p>[This message has been edited by Stuart Sweeney (edited January 14, 2001).]


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 Post subject: Re: Toxic Envy
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2001 2:50 pm 
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Location: San Diego, California, USA
I was most fortunate that I always had my husband's support - both financially and emotionally. But, otherwise I find that Trina is right on - I had to run the gamut of neighbors, friends and other family members questioning, doubting and even scoffing. However, the more they laughed the more serious I got. <P>Sometimes it was almost comical. They would purposely plan on activities to take place when I had a ballet class - it was almost like a contest in a way. Only, it wasn't a contest - because I always chose ballet class. <P> When I began piano lessons (in my 40's) - I would walk to class and run the gamut of snickering neighbors teasing me about carrying beginner music in my arms - but so what? I left them behind - and continued merrily on to piano class. <P>I think that people will laugh and carry on no matter what you chose to do - and if you chose to do nothing they will ridicule that too - so you might as well do as you want to do, as long as it is legal and harms no one else.


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 Post subject: Re: Toxic Envy
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2001 9:00 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 76
Location: BC , Canada
Here Here Basheva:<P> A toast to all who bravely try new things despite their chronological age.... I began Violin Lessons at 33 and just took up Judo this September. Yes I have had my share of snickers aimed at me . Do I care...nope ...life is to be a joyful celebration so do what brings you Joy.<P>Ramona<P><BR>

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 Post subject: Re: Toxic Envy
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2001 9:25 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 73
Location: Canberra, Australia
I couldn't agree more Rabbit. I've had a lot of people who can't quite believe I would take up ballet at age 28 (now 29), but my ballet experience has just inspired (they told me this themselves) one friend to take up violin at the age of 34 and another to go back to French lessons at 32 and yet another to return to piano lessons at 25. There should be more of it!


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 Post subject: Re: Toxic Envy
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2001 4:36 am 
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Location: Australia
more power to you, danni! Image<P>trina asks "How is it in other countries..."<P>the same trina, the same.......

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 Post subject: Re: Toxic Envy
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2001 8:04 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 1999 12:01 am
Posts: 2708
Location: Seattle, WA USA
I'm finding this thread so inspiring! To find there's others out there with the same experiences! <BR>As far as new activities, I am trying to get certified in teaching yoga-I'm so grateful that I've discovered yoga, after 20 years as a professional dancer. Wish I had done it earlier...recommend it to all!


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