CriticalDance Forum

It is currently Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:03 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Various Dance Schools
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2000 1:09 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 34
Location: Australia
In the thread QUESTIONS-QUESTIONS, we got talking about people going to various dance schools. I was wondering, is it better to go to many or 1 dance school? <BR>Any thoughts/ comments welcome. <BR>

_________________
~Elizabeth~


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Various Dance Schools
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2000 6:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 11327
Location: San Diego, California, USA
I am glad to see this discussion continued, but since I answered Elizabeth's question rather lengthily - I will only refer anyone back to that answer in the closed thread Questions Questions - third from the bottom - second page.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Various Dance Schools
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2000 7:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 12:01 am
Posts: 2208
Location: Australia
hi again, elizabeth.<P>it would help me to answer this question if it was a little more informative.....<P>in the absence of that information, i think i will say that it is better to find one really good school - the best one for you (which will be different for different people) - and stay there, till it is time to move on.<P>generally you know when it is time to move on, and if you have really picked a VERY good teacher, your teacher will know it, too....<P>some schools don't offer the full range of what students want - for example, someone may want to do ballet seriously, but also want to do tap, and maybe the ballet school doesn't offer tap - this situation can be tricky to deal with, because of all sorts of things get in the way, ranging from teacher jealousies to schedule conflicts - especially around concert time when everyone's patience is stretched to the full limit anyway!!!!!<P>no teacher takes very well to being told that you won't be at the dress rehearsal, because you are rehearsing another show across town at your other school! whichever teacher you disappoint - you will not be a happy girl! Image<P>having said that, i am a firm believer in doing what you want to do, as long as you don't create problems for others, and usually the best way to approach this is to ask for the advice, or the teacher recommendations, from the first teacher...the 'good' one you already picked!<P>there is also the issue of taking classes in the same type of dance from different teachers - possibly with different methods - e.g. maybe RAD ballet and vaganova ballet, just for example.<P>this is really not a good idea, until a certain age and level of ability has been reached.<P>there are lost of reasons, but if i give you just one.....<P>the vaganova approach does not teach any jumping until quite late in the syllabus - they believe that is the right way to go about it, and there are good reasons for this. a feature of the vaganova approach is that every movement is very thoroughly prepared for, over time.<P>the RAD, on the other hand (for different reasons) has quite a lot of jumps right from the outset - even primary levels.<P>neither approach is 'wrong'.<P>but if you are following one stream of teaching (e.g. vaganova) and then go to classes in the other (e.g. RAD or Cecchetti), the necessary ground work is NOT there for what you will be asked to do. the same would apply to OTHER steps, if you went in the reverse direction.....<P>sorry this has got quite long, but i can tell you want a thorough answer, because you have continued the subject on. i hope this helps....?<P>i encourage students NOT to go to a variety of schools until they are about 15, and with a reasonable amount of emotional maturity, so they don't make problems for themselves and everyone else by saying "mrs. so-and-so says that's NOT how you do it, SHE says you do it THIS way..." Image

_________________
<BR>


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Various Dance Schools
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2000 10:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 11327
Location: San Diego, California, USA
I would like to pick up on something Grace said - but first I need to say that I was assuming someone 15 yrs old or older - but I realize I didn't say that.<P>Now as to teacher jealousies. Grace is right - this can be very tricky. Some teachers will feel threatened if you also go to someone else's class. However, to my mind it is one of the things that would describe a "good teacher" that he/she would be very accepting that a student would also go to other teachers. To me, that would show me that the student is serious. It would not threaten me at all. But I have seen many teachers get quite angry about it. <P>Of course one of the worst things to say in class to a teacher is "well, Teacher A told me to do it another way - and now you are saying to do it this way........" The student could frame that question in quite another manner and perhaps get a really interesting answer - an answer that he/she could truly learn from.<P>I have had this happen to me as a student. And at that point I have said to the teacher "I have seen someone do this step another way - which do you think is best and could you tell me why?" That seems to frame the question is a much more palatable manner. Especially if you are asking this in front of the class. And, you could REALLY learn from the answer.<P>Both ways could be right - but it is always interesting to hear the basis upon which it rests.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Various Dance Schools
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2000 2:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 34
Location: Australia
Grace, about going to one school and sticking to it, wouldnt you say a variety or techniques/ teaching styles is important as you dont just become 'dependant' on one teacher?<P>When would you be able to tell when a student need to move on? Is it just because they have accomplished all the technique? or for other reasons? <P>I think if the teacher is a good teacher then they shouldnt mind if the student wants to go to another school, if they dont have that style of dance. Or otherwise.<BR> Basheva, you said teachers would feel threatened. But why would they feel threatened, they should be happy that the student has chosen to go to both. The student could have just given up going to the studio altogether. And yes, i know teachers get jealous, i have had that experience and it wasnt pleasant. As you said, it should show how serious the student is. <P>So would you say teachers dont mind giving advice? I thought that if you ask teachers than you wont get a straight answer because if they think bad of the teacher, they wont want to 'badmouth' their collegue. <P>What age and ability would you say needs to be accomplished, for you to be able to take 2 methods? <P>About, saying "Teacher A told me to do it another way - and now you are saying to do it this way...." why is that one of the worst possible things to say in class? <BR>I mean, you can say "Teacher A, told me to do it another way and now your telling me ot do it this way" and just add on "Why would you like it done this way?" to the end. <P>

_________________
~Elizabeth~


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Various Dance Schools
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2000 4:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 11327
Location: San Diego, California, USA
Well, Elizabeth - as we both agreed a good teacher should not mind that the student goes to another studio - it is perfectly reasonable to do so - but people are not always reasonable. Some very fine teachers become quite upset.<P>If I was asking a question in front of the class about another way of doing something - I would do it exactly as I posted above. Because the teacher could become upset - I wouldn't put him/her in the position of "losing face". I would want to avoid the possibility of that teacher misunderstanding me - and thinking that I was trying to undermine their knowledge or authority. A valuable, knowledgeable teacher could also have a fragile ego - or just be having a bad day. We all have those days. <P>Also, I would never ask one teacher an opinion of another teacher. That could put the teacher in a very uncomfortable position. I would either go watch the other class myself, or ask the opinion of a fellow student I trusted.<P>It's good to remember that while someone is teaching class - they are totally involved. Teaching is a wonderful experience but it is also a very draining experience. The good teacher is giving everything they have. There are so many things to think about and take into consideration. I wouldn't want to add to that. Sometimes it can be avoided by asking a question after class - and you may get a better answer when the teacher is relaxed. This is just from my experience of over 30 years of taking ballet class. To this day I am still very careful (or try to be) in how I approach the teacher.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Various Dance Schools
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2000 5:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 12:01 am
Posts: 2208
Location: Australia
SUCH good points brought up! you are really keeping us 'on our toes' elizabeth...but SOOOOOOOO many questions....could you slow down, just a bit? Image<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>about going to one school and sticking to it, wouldnt you say a variety or techniques/ teaching styles is important as you dont just become 'dependant' on one teacher?<P>When would you be able to tell when a student need to move on? Is it just because they have accomplished all the technique? or for other reasons? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>elizabeth, because you have brought up a lot of things in your post, i will need to give only breif answers, or *I* will be going on foreeeeeeveeeeeeeer...!<P>1. if the teacher is good, you take your own responsiblity for your own learningm,, and you don't become dependent obn the teacher.<P>2. as described in more detail above, sticking with one method, POSSIBLY the one school, but not necessarily the one TEACHER, is best - until you are about 14 or 15, for ballet. this assumes that you have picked the best teacher to bgin with.<P>3. after that age, more exposure is good, but your basic core training should still remain with ONE style, and preferably one teacher or one team of teachers (even better).<P>4. "What age and ability would you say needs to be accomplished, for you to be able to take 2 methods?" : it is never as simple as a 4 word answer, but i'll say 'just above elementary level'..... <P>5. if you want to do other genres (i.e. tap, flamenco, hip-hop, etc, then often it is necessary to go to other schools - take your teachers advice about this)<P>6. when to move on? well, it is NOT when you have 'accomplished all the technique' because THAT will NEVER happen!!!!! Image<P>usually you know. usually it is more a personal matter of personality differences as you mature, or of feeling in a bit of a rut - things becoming too familiar...sometimes you feel that others are geting more attention, and you need fresh input, or to avoid a situation of favouritism; sometimes it IS about progress - that the one teacher HAS taken you as far as she can, and she knows too, that you need someone at a higher level, even though she may be sad to see you go, after being part of your life for many years.....<P>7. i agree with basheva about asking questions. when teaching, it is completely UN-understandable to a student, i think, just HOW much is going on in the teacher's brain - so much thinking, wondering, planning, observation, working out.....adding in unexpected questions can really throw you off - although in my case that would usually be when the question is about something UNrelated to class - THAT really cuts into my train of thought (and shouldn't really happen, but my students know me well, and obviously feel they can do that sometimes...)<P>anyway, if you want to get the best out of the teacher, let her/him TEACH the class, THEN always DO bring up your questions, but choose the best time.<P>sometimes, the best time WILL be IN the class, sometimes it won't. also, it is more acceptable to bring up a technique question IN the class if it obviously aplies to a few people, and not just yourself - otherwise one person is using up time, that all have paid for.<P>this is sounding fairly discouraging of questions, which i never am! - i LOVE questions in the class, because it DOES provide the best learning opportunities, but there ARE other factors to consider too......<P>hoping you can understand some of these.<P>as a final note i would emphasise that any good teacher WILL WELCOME questions, but you do need to be considerate in choosing your moment appropriately..... Image

_________________
<BR>


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Various Dance Schools
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2000 11:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 34
Location: Australia
Well, i certainly didnt know that soo much effort went into teaching. *I* thought that it would be easy, buy then i have never taught and dont expect too for a loooong time, if i ever do. Anyway, are you saying that people shouldnt ask questions in class unless it is technique related? And ask questions that arent technique related, after class? When would you say is the appropriate time for asking questions?<P>Also, Grace i do understand your answers. Image

_________________
~Elizabeth~


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Various Dance Schools
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2000 12:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 12:01 am
Posts: 2208
Location: Australia
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>are you saying that people shouldnt ask questions in class unless it is technique related?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>that's right! maybe questions related to the CLASS might be a better way to describe it...<P>as to WHEN? well, that's a matter only YOU can judge - from the pace the teacher is setting in the class, from the teacher's attitude, from the response you get if you DO ask a question...pick up on hints! also of course, you can ASK your teacher/s whatthey would prefer - they'll tell you.<P>some teachers are better than others at swapping trains of thought...personally i am easily distracted and like to focus on one thing, BUT, i LOVE questions anytime.. because for me, thats what the teaching is about. i want to know what i am not communicating adequately, or what might present a difficulty for a student that i hadn't recognised...etc - those exchanges are the sincerest teaching, in a way....

_________________
<BR>


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Various Dance Schools
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2000 6:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 11327
Location: San Diego, California, USA
Grace is right, Elizabeth - each teacher deals with questions in a different way. I got into the habit when I was teaching, of ALWAYS asking for questions as I was setting a combination. I would ALWAYS stop, look up and say "Any Questions?" <P>But, I have come across some wonderful teachers - from whom I learned a great deal - that were not a disposed to answer questions very much in class. And there could be a very valid reason for this.<P> Over lunch one day, just such a teacher told me that he purposely limits questions - because he wants his class (it was a pre-professional class)to get it the first time. He felt that this would help them prepare for auditions. <P>Sometimes teenagers in a class will purposely ask questions to slow the class down. HA HA <P>Naturally, one would expect more questions from students who were not at the pre-professional level. When I was taking company class at San Deigo Ballet - there wre very few questions in class. Both the teacher and the class considered it a disruption. So - it does also depend on the level of the class.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Various Dance Schools
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2000 3:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 66
Location: New Zealand
Reading the above posts has been very interesting for me.<P>Until recently a student of 9 had been enrolled at our studio since the age of 4. The mother decided - her daughter would enjoy competition work. Due to commitments abroad at the time, I suggested the mother wait until my return and I could then scgedule a private lesson for this child. On my return home a conversation with the mother revealed she had changed her mind and the child no longer wished to do competition work.<P>3 months later in class, the child when asked to 'degage devant en fondu' had forced the turn-out in the working leg and you can all imagine what had happened to the standing leg hip, knee and thigh and foot. Other things which I won't mention had also crept in. I said to the child 'you will hurt your knees'. ( being as basic as I could) To which she then replied "But, my other ballet teacher said I should do that". She had gone to another teacher for competition work.<P>To cut a long story short 6 months after that I asked the mother to take her child to the other studio for her examination or technical work. It was taking so much longer to get through class as it meant so much time had to be spent on these faults which were creeping in. It really became quite awful because the mother then said that it was my problem because I obviously felt threatened by her taking her daughter to another studio.<P>It is important to state here : I have no problems about students taking from two studios. However, I would prefer to be consulted, as to who that teacher was, in case of conflicting 'advice' as happened with this student , and as mentioned earlier by Grace.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Various Dance Schools
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2000 4:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 11327
Location: San Diego, California, USA
Tip_Toes - that's sad isn't it? And the one who really ends up confused is the child. I think we are all in agreement that for children a good teacher should be found - and then the child should stay there until the basics are set. Perhaps, I should say not only "child" - but also "beginner".


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Various Dance Schools
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2000 6:15 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 33
Location: italy
This is a very interesting topic and grace you're right we can go on forever. I agree that until a student reaches an elementary level it's not a good idea to make her study with different teachers. Each of us has a different way to teach things and a different approach so it's better a student learns a specific method at first. I have a good class with very smart children (11/12 y/o) who are studying pre-elementary level. I often take them to attend stages because I'm sure they need to know different teachers and different methods of teaching (you know, here in Italy there's a very difficult situation for ballet schools!). I always watch their classes (it's very useful to see your students taught by somebody else) and at the end we discuss about the things they've learnt. I always underline that they have to do what the new teacher ask them, even if it's different from what they do with me. They don't seem to have any problem until now and I've noticed that they feel better in class and much more involved. Of course I'll be very sad if one of these girls should act as tip-toes's child but that's the way things go. Even if you 're as loyal and keen as possible you cannot expect the same behavoiur from the others. antoP.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Various Dance Schools
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2000 6:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 12:01 am
Posts: 2208
Location: Australia
hi antoP! Image just one question:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I often take them to attend stages <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>i know i have noticed a word like this ('stages'), in another language, and had some clue, at the time, as to what it refered to, but i don't, now - i am assuming from your context that you are talking about syllabus seminars, or master classes, or something similar...sorry to ask...<P>and i agree that if you encourage the students to be accepting of different approaches, and open to trying things, there will be far fewer problems than otherwise.

_________________
<BR>


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Various Dance Schools
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2000 9:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 33
Location: italy
Hi grace Image, here with the word "stage" we mean a special X days course held by a widely known teacher or/and dancer which offers an intensive training according to the different levels. Usually this course it's organized by some teacher in her own school: it's a good way to have the chance to study with a well known teacher (even if sometimes only for a couple of days) and not to spend too much money. Is it clear enough? I don't know how do you call this courses (if they exist) in your country. antoP.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group