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 Post subject: Creativity in Dance: what's that?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:14 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 122
Location: Dortmund, NRW, Germany
Rabbit:<BR>For socialisation I will agree with, creativity and personality will develope with or without dance....I know many wonderfully creative people (and all of them have personalities..LOL)who never danced as children. <P>I took this from the topic "parents expectation"<P>I would like to hear your meaning!<P>1) What is creativity?<BR>2) Does dance supports creativity or not?<BR>3) Is creativity inborn or can it be tought?<BR>4) How can we develope creativity?<P>Personally i agree with Rabbit. I see a lot of people who are creativ and dancing (or not dancing). I do also see a lot of people who are not creativ and dancing (or not dancing). ):<P>Are we giving creativity to much meaning (because it's popular?)<P>What do you say?<P>


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 Post subject: Re: Creativity in Dance: what's that?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2001 6:57 am 
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Posts: 13071
Location: San Diego, California, USA
Terrific topic and questions, Berry.<P>I think most people are creative at <I>something</I> - but they may not be aware of what that is until the opportunity is offerred to them. I had no idea I could paint until a friend took me to art class three years ago. I have no problem at all choreographing but I can't imagine composing music. <P>Dance class offers an opportunity for creativity. Either by choreographing, or dancing the music, by imagining a story to the music. Or in time by writing about dance, painting dance, creating stage sets, lighting dance, etc. Or, coming up with creative ways to teach dance.<P>It's another door........... <P>------------------<BR>Approach life as a dancer approaches the barre, with grace and purpose.<BR>


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 Post subject: Re: Creativity in Dance: what's that?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2001 8:23 am 
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Location: BC , Canada
Hi Berry:<BR>RE:<BR>"I would like to hear your meaning!"<P>1) What is creativity?<P>>> When I think of this, the following words come to mind. Imaginative, original, inventive. It is a big order to attempt to define this concept. Perhaps it is the facility to go outside of ones self and escape from pre-concieved notions and accepted norms. To think differently than we are conditioned to think.<P>2) Does dance supports creativity or not?<P>>> I would have to think opposite of this...does dance support creativity or does creativity support dance? Without ifusions of creativity dance would cease to grow, if we never took an existing movement and asked ourselves what more could I do with this, or, what less. If we never took a piece of music and tried to look at it from differing angles...well here is what I am getting at. If you have ever taken an art class and had 10 people in a room working on the same subject, you will find 10 different aproaches to the subject, there will be no two alike..now does the subject support the individual approaches or creativities..or does the creativity support the subject as a work of art....to me it comes from the inventiveness of the individual or you might as well just take a picture and make 10 photocopies. Dance without the creativity is just as inanimate as the still life. But this same creativity can be used in visual arts, music and sciences...not just dance.<P><BR>3) Is creativity inborn or can it be tought?<P>>> I believe we are all inately creative..somehow for some of us through the conditioning we undergo in our developing years this can become lost. This is part of the reason I dislike organised activities for young children. Why should we teach them how to move from so young an age and risk infering..giive them the perception that there is a right and wrong way to do so. Watching their own inventive movement is wonderful enough and I do not think in these times children are given enough opportunity for self directed play..it is in this type of play that we will witness this innate creativiity. Example: 18 month old at x-mas...give them the present and they would rather play with the box. Our children these days are far to hurried away from their childhood..told not only what to think but also how to think..this will definatley intefere with their creative developement. So I find myself wondering if in teaching creative/pre-dance if in some small way I am doing harm.<P>4) How can we develope creativity?<P>>>> we can develope creativity by allowing it to develope..why do we think we must always have a hand in process? ...because we desire product!! I say enjoy process, allow the child to go through the process of being a child..through self directed inventive play..give them pens and paper, give them paint & chalk, give them music and musical instraments and let them explore and discover on their own for a time & when they come to us and express a desire to learn in a more structured way then give them that too. <P>Are we giving creativity to much meaning (because it's popular?)<P>.. In my opinion we are perhaps giving it so much meaning because we a realising what we are loosing with our own structured lifestyles.. we have not the time to explore our own creativity..there are just to many kits out there that will promise a shortcut to our desired end, we are denying ourselves the joy of process for the persuit of product. I wish at times that we would all wake up and realise that life itself is process..there is no product....the process is where you will find the joy.... the process is where we will re-discover creativity ......if we allow ourseves to.<P>Picasso himself came to a point in his work where he found that he must unlearn what he was taught, he must throw away his pre-concieved notions & become like a child again.<P><BR>Kids have a monopoly on creativity. It seems the younger they are the more they have. They do not start to loose that until we start giving them to many right ways and wrong ways of doing things. To many directions... to much telling them what and how to think rather than allowing them to think for themsellves and share it with us.<P>Disclaimer: I do not suggest we allow them a free for all, all of the time..some structure is neccesary for their own well being.<P><BR>

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<BR>Ramona Hartley<BR>


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 Post subject: Re: Creativity in Dance: what's that?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2001 9:02 am 
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Location: USA
One small addendum to Rabbit's excellent post. Something that was actually touched upon. Much creativity arises when a person is doing "nothing" by most societal standards. The creative process needs room to exist, and with most people being constantly "busy" with constant activity and input, the creative aspect is either forced or unable to come forward at all.<P> Being busy and having input or stimulus isn't bad, it's just becoming unbalanced. Those times of doing nothing are necessary and doesn't mean nothing is happening. We sometimes feel guilty about it, or conversely, we feel proud about how "busy" we are, and like to "outbusy" others. Our hearts and minds need room to allow things to come to the surface after we have spent time stimulating them with our world and environment.


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 Post subject: Re: Creativity in Dance: what's that?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2001 10:54 am 
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Posts: 13071
Location: San Diego, California, USA
I think that some of the things we have invented to "make our lives easier" actually make them more difficult. Even when people were heavily involved in survival activities, those very activities allowed for quiet time. Lots of time to think while waiting for a deer to walk by and become supper for the hunter. Lots of time to think while plowing a field. Not as much time to think while walking down the aisle of the supermarket. <P>So, it doesn't surprise me that I do some of my best thinking in the shower - LOL. It's no accident. Some of it has to do with the crowding of our lives. It's hard to find room at a National Park to just sit and contemplate. Park benches tend to be full, too. <P>Children's toys tend to be battery operated. And, instead of impromtu pickup games of baseball - there's organized Little League. I don't think I ever bought my son a battery operated toy - but we did buy him lots of Lego sets and all of the boys of the neighborhood would gather around in my patio to build with those things.<P>I think dance can combine both discipline and creativity. Again I am not talking about the tiny tots - but in mid-childhood. Sometimes discipline gives one freedom. <P>As for art - there is nothing wrong with having a teacher to teach the principals. When one knows the principles - like Piccaso - then one can also chose to ignore those principles. That's why it is called art - and that is why it is called creativity.


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 Post subject: Re: Creativity in Dance: what's that?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2001 11:32 am 
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Posts: 498
Location: neworleans, louisiana
The late educator Leo Buscaglia wrote many wonderful things about this topic, and how, sadly, our educational system thwarted our most creative teachers' ways of instilling love of learning in our little ones. <P>Whenever I was asked about my approach to teaching by parents and teachers alike, I always gave this blunt answer:<P>"These children are going to have enough<BR>a__holes in their lives. I don't want to be the first." <P>As crass as that might initially sound, it was a remark that usually brought a 1) gasp 2) laugh and 3) appreciative nod of the head.<P>Why?<P>Because when you talk to people about your teachers growing up, there are always two that come to mind: 1) the one you couldn't stand and; 2) the one you loved.<P>Why did you love the one you loved? <P>Usually, because that teacher was the one who made learning FUN through imagination <P>-- and/or<P>that teacher was the one who recognized and encouraged your own imagination.<P>One of the saddest kinds of teachers is the one who not only thwarts your efforts but may even be jealous. <P>Listen to this:<P>Long ago, there was a young girl who was considered incorrigible and sent by her wealthy but not very interested father to a Catholic boarding school, where the young girl met up with an almost equally incorrigible young girl, and together, they turned that place upside down with their hijinks. Many times, they were nearly thrown out. But something funny happened to the crazier of the two: she found the nurturing she had lacked and came to realize she loved the place and felt a sense of home. And so, on graduation day, it was announced that two of the girls would be staying on to become nuns themselves. She was one of the two!<P>Her best friend went on to become a writer, and wrote a book about their escapades. It was turned into a movie, featuring Hayley Mills, and was one of my favorites growing up.<P>The friend who became a nun eventually became a high school teacher, and as years went by, she became rather elderly and beset by health problems. She even became somewhat cranky. But not too cranky or ill to take a special interest in one young girl, who was somewhat madcap herself, and had yet to find a teacher who truly appreciated and encouraged her creative talents. This nun became the young girl's favorite teacher. She wrote bits of thoughtful praise and suggestion all over the girl's papers and encouraged her to read them aloud to the class. And the girl could get this gem of a teacher in the twilight of her years to laugh and share old memories as no one else could.<P>The girl never forgot the praise and encouragement she had received to give her writing her best effort -- to believe in herself and her creativity and her ideas. Even while she was performing, she never stopped writing and it was there that she always felt a sense of true confidence. <P>Eventually, the girl decided to leave the stage while still young, and without one journalism course (albeit an English minor), she got herself hired onto a newspaper by writing a colorful depiction of her trials and tribulations in show business. In less than a year, she was named columnist of the year by the state's newspaper association. To this day, the girl believes that because one teacher out there allowed her -- yes, encouraged her -- to let her differences from others shine, she was able to succeed in a most competitive field. <P>Think about the effect that we who are teachers now can have on just one child. <P> <P>


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 Post subject: Re: Creativity in Dance: what's that?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2001 11:34 am 
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Location: neworleans, louisiana
Oh, one more thing, if I didn't get this across ...<P>In order for creativity to develop, it must first be ALLOWED.<P>


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 Post subject: Re: Creativity in Dance: what's that?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2001 12:06 pm 
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Location: neworleans, louisiana
One, one, more thing -- ha, ha.<P>I had children who moved on (because of their age) from creative dance to the 'real' thing, and still wanted to know if it was okay to sit in sometimes in my classes with the younger children. They missed going up in the rocket to the moon where they jumped across the craters and danced in space, going to the forest and roasting marshmallows in the middle of the woods, sneaking up the stairs to my grandma's house and eating strudel, going to the skating rink and drinking hot chocolate, and not only doing the wash (including their brother's dirty socks) but becoming the wash, rinse and spin cycles. <P>


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 Post subject: Re: Creativity in Dance: what's that?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2001 11:24 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 11:01 pm
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Location: Anchorage, Alaska
I wonder if part of that is because so often dance can become just an arrangement of one's parts and not a living moment with many details to experience. I guess that is one of the things that makes for magical moments - when whatever technique is being used happens transparently enough to allow for that actual experience to take place. As I've typed this I was specifically thinking of these wonderful places and trips Christina's classes go on. Her brief descriptions give a vivid start.


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 Post subject: Re: Creativity in Dance: what's that?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2001 5:56 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 11:01 pm
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Location: San Diego, California, USA
I think it starts with those words that children use when they start their games:<P>"Let's pretend.............."


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 Post subject: Re: Creativity in Dance: what's that?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2001 12:25 pm 
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Location: neworleans, louisiana
What do you mean "pretend?"<P>We DID go to the moon. We DID, we DID, we DID!!!!!!!<P>


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 Post subject: Re: Creativity in Dance: what's that?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:10 pm 
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Location: London, England; Tallinn, Estonia
An official, working to incorporate dance syllabi into a national examination structure said, 'Forgive me, but I thought that this was meant to be an art form. I've seen a lot about technique, but nothing about creativity or even expression.' <P>Perhaps this lack of creativity in ballet exams and ballet class through to professional level in the UK, and I suspect elsewhere, is part of the reason that ballet has become so reliant on choreographers trained outside the ballet world. Mark Morris was choreographing from the age of 13 or so and at 16 was choreographing for a semi-pro Bulgarian dance group. And it shows. <p>[This message has been edited by Stuart Sweeney (edited January 24, 2001).]


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 Post subject: Re: Creativity in Dance: what's that?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:12 pm 
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Location: San Diego, California, USA
Christina - I want to go to Mars - I do, I do. <P>I just love when small children sit in a sort of kids circle and put their heads together and the conversation starts with "lets pretend......." sometimes adults (not you, Christina!!) forget those magic words.


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 Post subject: Re: Creativity in Dance: what's that?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:46 pm 
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Location: San Diego, California, USA
Stuart - I just saw your post - I was typing mine at the same time - <P>I have to agree - though I know that my opinion is unpopular, but that is why I found teaching a ballet syllabus stultifying. I can only speak for myself - each person choses which way is best for them. <P>I just couldn't bear to teach for myself and my students to an exam........having someone else set the goals and the choreography. It's just not me. <P>But others do well at it, and I applaud them.<P>


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 Post subject: Re: Creativity in Dance: what's that?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2001 4:19 am 
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Posts: 122
Location: Dortmund, NRW, Germany
I just found this site and wanted all of you to share my respect for the entrances i picked up there.<P>Classroom activities for teaching<BR>mathematics and performing arts<BR>through whole-body movement<P><BR>Take a look :<BR> <A HREF="http://www.mathdance.org/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.mathdance.org/</A> <P>


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