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 Post subject: Re: Outdated Teaching Expressions
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2000 5:22 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2000 12:01 am
Posts: 10
Yikes.. my teachers are always saying "tuck under".. but I find that it really helps to get me in line? I found that before I consciously tried to do this, my bottom stuck out in plies - now I look more properly aligned.. is this wrong?<P><BR>*Amy*


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 Post subject: Re: Outdated Teaching Expressions
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2000 5:51 pm 
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Location: San Diego, California, USA
If it worked for you Amy - and your teacher is pleased - then it's ok ...........


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 Post subject: Re: Outdated Teaching Expressions
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2000 6:12 pm 
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Amzey, Basheva is right. But this is one of those expressions that *can* be taken wrong. I'm sure your teacher used the the term "tuck under" to help you place your pelvis in the right alignment, and as you say, it worked for you. Sometimes, the student can misunderstand that phrase and actually "tuck under" thinking that their pelvis should tip in that direction. (ie; tailbone too far under, pubic bone too far forward.)<P>I'm sure your teacher certainly doesn't mean that, but that is how things get translated in the student's mind sometimes. When that happens in the "tucking under" example, the student usually clenches the derriere. This in itself isn't necessarily bad, after all there are muscles there that should be used. It is bad when that clenching causes the pelvis to tip too much, throwing the body's alignment off. The other thing that happens is the thigh muscles then "bunch" and overdevelop, creating further problems.<P>So, you see, the alignment of the pelvis and the spine are integral and very important to the dancer, and if these habits are developed early on, when the student is old enough to understand, then the student is started well in their technical development.<P>It sounds to me as if you're doing quite well. (I read your other post) Sometimes we need to allow ourselves the time to let some of the things develop for us. Your teachers must be doing a good job, also.


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 Post subject: Re: Outdated Teaching Expressions
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2000 7:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 12:01 am
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Location: Australia
amy, both basheva and maggie will always give you good advice. i agree with them, but would also like to underline maggie's comment that habits are ingrained early, and it is SO important to get good ones! Image<P>posture is the single most important thing in ballet, IMO, so if i were you, i would pay VERY careful attention to all this now, when you are still relatively new to ballet, in order to give yourself the best chance of the fast progress you want.<P>a real live teacher is the best facilitator of good posture, but let me try just one idea for you here:<P>imagine the pelvis as a big bowl with liquid in it. it can be tipped (forward, so it overflows down the front of you!!), or be level in the midle when perfectly aligned, or be tipped backwards, so it overflows down the back of you (harder to do, but possible).<P>it will really help if you can just stand up (not in a turned-out ballet position, but just standing normally), and DO these movements. deliberately exaggerate the tilt forward and back (both of these movements will scrunch your body DOWN, and make you feel shorter) - THEN, find a happy medium, where your pelvis sits upright and you feel taller. hope that helps.<P>then, of course, find the same feeling when turned out..... Image

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 Post subject: Re: Outdated Teaching Expressions
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2000 5:36 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 11:01 pm
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Location: italy
The RAD method uses the flexed cou-de-pied position for battements frappés and wrap position for petits battements. <P>As far as batterie, grace, I checked in the dictionary and it's feminine (so petite batterie would be right) but allegro (an Italian word meaning lively) is masculine (so it's grand allegro, petit allegro and so on). Victoria and Basheva were talking about petit allegro.<BR>Arabesque (from the Italian "arabesco", masculine, meaning "in the Arabian style") is feminine in French (so it's "une arabesque fondue" and not as often it's seen "un arabesque fondu").<P>I too use the word cambré for every bend of the body, even if in the RAD method it doesn't exist at all. But I find cambré more economical then forward bend (in italian "piegarsi in avanti", three words!)<P>IMO often words can be misleading (above in ballet where everything is physical). The most useful correction is a clear demonstration and it's up to the teacher. antoP.


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 Post subject: Re: Outdated Teaching Expressions
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2000 2:43 pm 
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well i never! thanks antoP. <P>i think that because battement is masculine, as in petit battement, and i was getting so peeved at seeing THAT mis-spelled, i somehow related that to batterie (which of course is a completely different word, so: my mistake).<P>i got irritated when i kept seeing 'petite batterie' posted here and at BA, where i can't post. (they were not using the phrase 'petit allegro' in the thread i am referring to, as that would not have attracted my attention at all, being the term we would use also, but rather 'petite batterie'.) <P>when i saw even victoria use 'petite batterie' (as i know she is SO reliable), then, i was most frustrated at seeing something repeated, that looked wrong to me. but it would be right - you are correct, and so are they. my apologies to both.<P>as i explained above, the term 'petite batterie' does not exist here, nor in england in my experience, as batterie IS, by definition, petite.<P>i am glad you too have decided 'cambré' is economical and appropriate.<P>re the cou-de-pied, though - i was tring to avoid getting into this one! - but when i say that cecchetti used a 'flexed' foot for frappés- i really mean flexed foot (i.e. the whole foot flexed strongly at the ankle).<P>whereas in my experience RAD cou-de-pied for frappés is what we would call a relaxed foot, or a partially flexed foot (i.e. flexed from the mid-foot, rather than from the ankle)...do you agree?

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 Post subject: Re: Outdated Teaching Expressions
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2000 2:48 pm 
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woops! i <B>didn't</B> say 'Cecchetti used a flexed foot for frappés'! the point raised was about petits battements, and how basheva teaches them. please, if we want to discuss that, could we start another thread? - as cou-de-pied is a balletic 'minefield' (so to speak...)!!!!!! thanks! Image

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 Post subject: Re: Outdated Teaching Expressions
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2000 6:13 pm 
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Location: australia
thanks to everyone on the different ways o saying things... <BR>bahseva, please give tell me about the other exercise for high extensions! Your other one I will practise daily.


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 Post subject: Re: Outdated Teaching Expressions
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2000 10:59 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 11:01 pm
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Location: italy
grace, I'm not sure I understand the relaxed position for cou- de -pied. For the RAD the foot is flexed at the ankle only for battements frappés, otherwise it's fully pointed (i.e. in battements fondus) Image. <P>In "The Language of Ballet" by Thalia Mara (a very helpful book for me) there's this definition of batterie: "The generic term for all allegro steps in which the legs beat against each other in the air. Batterie is divided into two categories - grande and petite - according to the elevation of the step." Mara lists cabriole and entrechat six de volée among grande batterie and brisé, royal and entrechat quatre among petite batterie. antoP.


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 Post subject: Re: Outdated Teaching Expressions
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2000 11:31 pm 
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to tell you the truth, antoP: is it really worth bothering with? the cou-de-pied thing?<P>i guess you must think so...i'm torn between wanting to clarify, and not wanting to launch into a whole cou-de-pied thread! i'll just put my thoughts on this one aside for a while....(sorry!)

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 Post subject: Re: Outdated Teaching Expressions
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2000 3:22 pm 
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Location: San Diego, California, USA
Purple - I will be happy to give you another exercise for strengthening your extensions.<P>It is very simple - not easy - but simple. Whenever you do your grand battements - front, side or back - don't drop the leg - lower it. Feel the control as the leg comes down. You have to stay within the music - but there is a great difference between dropping the leg - and controlling its descent. Feel the stomach muscles working - and the back muscles - in this controlled descent. Also imagine that hand under your thigh as you lower the leg.<P>When you do the "kick" up to the height of the grand battement - push off strongly with your foot - push and stretch that foot until it leaves the floor = that will really give you power and additional height - and then you control the descent.<P>Another thing you can do is developpe' your leg (in any direction) in fondu - and then straighten your standing leg - keeping the extended leg at the same height as it was in fondu. Nothing should change - just straighten that standing knee. <P>Tell me how that works for you........<P>


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