CriticalDance Forum
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Reviewers are not always qualified.
http://www.ballet-dance.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23514
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Author:  Matthew [ Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:27 pm ]
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Isn't it interesting how these converations develop - now we are discussing the relative merits of break dancing vs ballet.

Well, I think you hit on the key point(e) :lol: - break dancing is basically a form of athleticism, , wheras I feel that ballet is basically a form of artisitic expression . I am sure there is a lot of overlap, and I doubt that I am wording it very well, but I think there is a fundamental difference between these two forms of dance. I don't think I am saying anything particularily controversial or critical - It is like comparing a late Mozart symphony with a Charles Ives symphony - one can prefer Ives over Mozart, but structurally they are so dissimilar that it really is hard to say which one is better than the others. For me personally I have a more of a classicist approach to art, and I do not see a lot of beauty in break dancing. Although I can appreciate how difficult it must be physically. it doesn't put me in a state of wonder and awe.

Author:  Andre Yew [ Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:05 am ]
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If you assume (and I realize that not everyone shares this assumption) that art is a form of communication and human expression, whether it be emotional, intellectual, or something else, then whatever means allow you to succesfully carry out that communication is valid. Viewed this way, I don't think a particular physical dance form is any indicator of whether something is art or not --- that's like arguing that prose is not art, and haiku is. They are just vessels used to carry and convey the intention of the artist, and it's how they're used that determines if something is art or not.

--Andre

Author:  djb [ Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:11 pm ]
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shallot wrote:
Have you attended a street session and watched the incredible athleticism and personal expression involved in this particular art form?


Matthew wrote:
Well, I think you hit on the key point(e) - break dancing is basically a form of athleticism, , wheras I feel that ballet is basically a form of artisitic expression .


Matthew, I don’t think shallot did, in fact, hit on the key point that you are making; she merely pointed out that break dancing involves a lot of athleticism. The same can be said of ballet. In fact, the same is often said of ballet.

I see a lot of beauty in break dancing, and it does put me in a state of wonder and awe.

Author:  shallot [ Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:32 pm ]
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Break Dancing is as expressive emotionally as it is eloquent athletically. The step vocabulary continues to morph and evolve as new artists contribute their idioms to the form. To assume that a Western European form of kinetic expression is more refined or expresive than that of an Urban street scene is a narrowness of which I want no part.

Author:  osiris661 [ Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:11 pm ]
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Andre Yew wrote:
art is a form of communication and human expression, whether it be emotional, intellectual, or something else, then whatever means allow you to succesfully carry out that communication is valid. --Andre


Amen Brother!!!!!!! Took the words right out of my mouth.

Author:  touche [ Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:30 am ]
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Matthew wrote:
For me personally I have a more of a classicist approach to art, and I do not see a lot of beauty in break dancing. Although I can appreciate how difficult it must be physically. it doesn't put me in a state of wonder and awe.


This best expresses what I was saying. I love breakdancing.
I love all movement--artistic, clumsy, streetwise, or otherwise. The difference between ballet and other forms of movement is the extreme musicality and developmental training that goes into a ballet performance. You don't have to be a scholar to love ballet, but the depths and layers of a magical performance of ballet is unique.

Author:  touche [ Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:32 am ]
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shallot wrote:
Break Dancing is as expressive emotionally as it is eloquent athletically. The step vocabulary continues to morph and evolve as new artists contribute their idioms to the form. To assume that a Western European form of kinetic expression is more refined or expresive than that of an Urban street scene is a narrowness of which I want no part.


No one said it wasn't beautiful. You might be misunderstanding what is being said.

Author:  touche [ Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  The crux of the issue

[ :wink: I don't think a particular physical dance form is any indicator of whether something is art or not --- that's like arguing that prose is not art, and haiku is. They are just vessels used to carry and convey the intention of the artist, and it's how they're used that determines if something is art or not.

--Andre[/quote]

I think this difference may be exactly the crux of the issue.
Those who understand breakdancing "from the spinning ground on up" may actually be the most qualified to critically write about it. Anyone can be a fan, but it helps to have background and experience in the art form when critizing works; especially, when those critiques are read by 1,000,000 readers like the Chronicle. Those readers buy tickets. Those tickets support companies.

Author:  salzberg [ Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The crux of the issue

touche wrote:
especially, when those critiques are read by 1,000,000 readers like the Chronicle.


The Augusta Chronicle has 1,000,000 readers?

Author:  touche [ Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:11 am ]
Post subject:  I do believe it is close to that.

Actually, I am not sure of the exact figure today.
At one point that was their circulation.
It is possible that with the internet and alternate sources of news information it could be less or more. Whatever it is they certainly are a huge influence in the bay area, particularly when it comes to the arts.

Author:  DavidH [ Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:20 pm ]
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When the company I works for gets a negative review the phone calls and emails come out of the wood work and we get a 1001 suggestions (unsolicited of course) about how to make it all better.

However when a positive review is published nary a soul (fans, friends, family members) is in sight.


I go the opposite way. When it is a bad review I leave them alone, it's hare enough dealing with published bad press.

Now, when it's a good review I'm the first to email or phone and congratulate an organization for taming the "beast."

Silly me! 8)

Author:  Azlan [ Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:48 am ]
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But, DavidH, could there be other circumstances drawing the feedback?

What if for example the company has decided to take the bad work to a major venue, in spite of the negative local reviews and the negative publicity? What if despite word of the negative work reaching other major dance communities in other cities, the company insists nevertheless to tour with it? Firstly, could that be a sign of denial? And secondly, what should friends do? Let the company members make fools of themselves and maybe lose their reputation in the process? Or try to talk sense into them?

Author:  Azlan [ Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:29 am ]
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As evidenced above, sometimes people in the company or close to the company put too much stock or not enough stock in reviews to suit their fancy. It must be the fragile ego we have -- no one likes to hear criticism. Some are too devastated by them and some are buoyed by positive reviews.

I have to believe that most artists know deep inside when they've done a great job and when they've missed the mark, yet there's this need to seek validation in reviews. They develop a denial when they read something they don't like to hear about themselves or they get their ego pumped up if it's a positive review, regardless of whether the review was accurate or not!

An artist I respect a lot has a unique and positive attitude about reviews. She has no respect for critics and their reviews if they give her a positive review without merit -- these reviews mean nothing to her. But she takes every negative review as a challenge to show how she can do better next time. Now, that's a definition of greatness!

Author:  salzberg [ Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:10 am ]
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I figure that for every time I've gotten a bad review that I felt was undeserved, at least once I've gotten a good review that was undeserved, so it evens out.

Quotes from good reviews go on my web site and in my resume'. Quotes from bad reviews get forgotten, except this one:

Quote:
"Jeffrey E. Salzberg's flashy lighting is somewhat distracting, but that's a relief in this musical."

Author:  Lucy [ Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:18 am ]
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This gave me a giggle :D Thanks for that Jeff!

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