brave woman basheva!

LOL <img src="http://www.criticaldance.com/ubb/smile.gif" alt="" /> -no need, stuart!

stuart i think this is a fashionable 'line', and i'm just sick of hearing it....i don't get the impression that people who say this actually stop to think - it's just a fashionable thing to be saying in recent years.

in return, i COULD quote you from this july interview with marilyn jones OBE (stanton welch's mother, ex-director of the australian ballet and ex-prima ballerina of that company):

http://forum.criticaldance.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=000312

neither your quote nor mine proves anything, however - just two people's opinions...

please: who is the McGregor you refer to?

<font size = -2><center>(Edited by salzberg to fix link)</center></font>

<small>[ 08-11-2002, 05:18: Message edited by: salzberg ]</small>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>please: who is the McGregor you refer to?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Wayne McGregor of Random Dance Company.<BR>

More bravery here - I will take my line of thought a bit further- Given the rather strict structure in ballet companies, how much encouragement is there for a young dancer to try out his/her choreographic wings? From what I have seen of modern dance companies (and granted I am NO authority on modern dance) it seems the ranking structure is a bit looser. <P>If a lowly corps de ballet member went up to a person of power and authority and said "I have an idea" - I would bet most times little encouragement is given - tell me that I am wrong.......... I would love to be wrong on this matter..........<P>

wroginski, you mentioned "Modern is also America's foremost contribution to the dance world."<P>i disagree. you left out jazz. jazz is a unique american creation that evolved from a wholly american experience.<P>modern dance evolved from different countries including germany. now europeans are far ahead of americans in creating contemporary dance. many american works have not venture far from their original roots and they look dated by comparision

interesting observation(s) Cronos - sounds fair to me!<P>and basheva, with complete understanding of your wish to be deemed 'wrong' ) ), in my experience, re this:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If a lowly corps de ballet member went up to a person of power and authority and said "I have an idea" - I would bet most times little encouragement is given - tell me that I am wrong.......... I would love to be wrong on this matter..........<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>"in my experience", you ARE wrong! <P>seriously, i have never seen this situation greeted with anything OTHER THAN the greatest enthusiasm and encouragement. hope that makes your day!

Grace where was this? I could only dream that such a welcoming attitude would occur in the San Diego area. From what I have seen here - the atmosphere is enclosed and incestuous.

sorry basheva - i really thought it was a straight question, rather than a rhetorical one!<P>"where was this?" - well, honestly: everywhere i've ever been close enough to the structure of a company to notice - which is not that many places, but various places in australia and in england. certainly i have never got the impression that what i was seeing was anything out of the ordinary, either.<P>company choreographic development programs are just part of the status quo, from what i've seen. they may be slight. they usually are as little as an annual showcase of workshop items, presented in a studio, to the ballet company's 'Friends & Supporters' organisation, and the paying public who bother to be on appropriate mailing lists and so on, to be alerted to such events.<P>i always encourage students and their families to go to them, because they are cheap, informal (so, less threatening to people unfamiliar with the theatre culture), usually early evening (so, not late for families), and allow the students a peek inside the company working environment and an opportunity to get really close to the dancers. usually the presentation is followed by a question and answer session.<P>the best or most popular of these works are usually further developed into pieces for the company later on. sometimes i review these, as works in progress, which gives the choreographers a bit of national exposure re their new creative interest/potential/skill/undertakings.<P>while it may be slight, it is a fair gesture, given how little resources are available to be stretched, in any direction other than the money-making one.<P>i would say that in the dreams or the nightly prayers of the artistic director of any ballet company, thetwo things that would figure highest would be<BR>A) send more money, and<BR>B) let me discover an in-house choreographer. (nothing earns a director more praise than doing so.)<P>so, obviously, it would appear, my experience and yours, of this, are very different. this is one of the values of the internet discussion forums, but also one of the challenges. our experiences of anything can be so different, but we know they are valid in our own environments, then when we express these statements about 'how it is' - the result can be most unexpected!<P>people almost come to blows - metaphorically speaking - over differences in ideas, which might not arise in their own communities. but that to me represents a great learning opportunity. when a situation seems to be better in one place than another, in one regard, it helps to ask (as you did) 'where is this?', 'how does this happen?', 'what factors are different where i am?', 'could this idea be modelled here to any benefit?' etc.....<P>not suggesting for a moment, that san diego doesn't have these same events or same good intentions......of course i have no idea what they have.....maybe you could explain a bit more about your last comment: 'incestuous and enclosed'?

The question was straight - and that's why I followed it up with "where is this?" - and I am pleased to learn that there are places where in-house choreography is encouraged. I always encouraged it among my students - we had a yearly Student's Choreographic Workshop - but I am not a company with the prestige and resources of a company.<P>I can only speak for where I am - this area - San Diego and what I have seen of it. At one time there was an alliance of dance enthusiasts who had the idea of renting a mid sized theater for two-three nights and allowing dancers and dance groups to present their work. This would be for groups who otherwise could not afford to rent such a venue - and really couldn't present a full evening of work on their own.<P>Seemed like a wonderful idea!! The first year or so we did get to see dancers and dance groups that we would not ordinarily get to see. But, by the third year it was readily apparent that the usual in-power dance entities in this city had taken over and the single dancers and smaller groups eased out. The companies that would be included became entirely predictable. At that point it lost my interest. The excitement was over.<P>Then we had an arts board assembled to allocate what government funds were available. To allocate that portion of the funds that were to go to local dance entities was decided by - guess who? - the powers that ran those dance entities. When it came time to allocate funds for company "A" - well then the arts board member who was also a part of company "A" would step out of the room for a few minutes so the charade could be maintained that no one was allocating for funds their own group. And so it went down the line - till all the funds were allocated.<P>That's what I mean by incestuous and enclosed. I could also add insular and short sighted.

ah well! if we are talking about allocation of funds by arts council type bodies, etc....i've certainly seen THAT scenario you describe! <P>the theatre renting idea you outline sounds great - shame that didn't manage to hold to its original aim, eh?<P>you may be interested to know that australia has a choreographic development centre, in the nation's capital:<BR> <A HREF="http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/ausdance/artists/companies/choreographic/index.html" TARGET=_blank>http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/ausdance/artists/companies/choreographic/index.html</A> <P>but i probably mentioned that already...

thanks to DanceService.UK for this info, which also appears in its own thread in :<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Dance UK, the nationally recognised support and development organisation for dance, will hold it's first ever CHOREOFORUM on Sunday 12 November at the London Studio Centre.<P>"The day is designed to be informative, empowering and fun, and to allow choreographers, who often work on their own, to meet each other and share their experiences" says Jeanette Siddall, Dance<BR>UK's interim director. "It's about choreographers seeing themselves as a coherent profession, with a fascinating history and a bright future."<P>There are still a few places left - book up soon to make sure of yours.<P>Tickets cost £35.25 (inc. VAT) for Dance UK members, £52.88 (inc VAT) for non-members (includes a year's introductory membership to Dance UK). Tickets include all food and a drink at the end of the day <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll just kind of blurt in here how glad I am Cronos mentioned jazz as having been a "unique american creation that evolved from a wholly american experience". <P>Thanks for keeping the conversation lively and informative, y'all!

Speaking of American inspired dance idioms - isn't tap dancing also an American creation?<P>I am picturing Fred Astaire as I type - but I know that tap is much older than that -and evolved from Black folk dance - didn't it?

<P>The National Dance Lab will showcase its pilot project on November 17 in a presentation of "the culmination of six weeks of movement research within the lab environment by Jenkins and her artistic collaborators."<P><B><A HREF="http://www.criticaldance.com/ubb/Forum13/HTML/000074.html" TARGET=_blank>The full press release</A></B><p>[This message has been edited by Azlan (edited October 30, 2000).]

priscilla, tap must be also wholly american. there is no other culture it is derived from.<P>i am curious about the objectives of the national dance lab. what is the purpose of its existence. american culture is about experimentation and bucking the trend. why do we need a dance lab. is to create or is it to preserve.

To Basheva and Cronos on tap dance. Two recent PBS (Channel 13 in the New York area)shows "Walking Tours" of Harlem and of Brooklyn attribute Tap Dance to 'a meeting' of New Yorks poor Irish and poor blacks. Both had a dance tradition which when blended and practiced on the street cornors became "American Tap". The author of the shows, along with guest David Hartmann, speak of a Civil War era time period---slightly before but mostly after. They talked of certain locations for performance and competitions in both sections of the city.