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 Post subject: Re: The Keefer case's aftermath
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:21 pm 
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Thank you very much, Trina - I value your opinion.<P>I just got a letter from my brother in law (whose opinions I also value)and after reading the magazine he said the same thing Trina - that the foreign magazines were of a much higher quality than many American ones. He was very favorably impressed by the quality of Dance Europe Magazine.


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 Post subject: Re: The Keefer case's aftermath
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2001 6:27 pm 
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The other thing I noticed very graphically, Basheva, is that Dance Europe seems to be geared to ADULT dancers. Some American magazines dealing with dance (which SHALL go unamed) are really geared to adolescents. I've long stopped reading them for that reason. To me, it's ultimately a metaphor for our American culture. I REALLY, SINCERELY believe that most people in this country view dance as a pursuit for adolescents; and these magazines can't help but reflect that reality. Ooopps..this sounds like a topic for a new thread, perhaps!


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 Post subject: Re: The Keefer case's aftermath
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2001 9:58 pm 
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<P> Yes.... for the 100th time. Regardless of the criteria for placement at SFB all Fredrika did was walk and skip around the room with 20 other kids for 20 minutes. They were very clear they were not looking for technique and they did not audition for musicality or instinct in 20 minutes with 20 kids. We all know what is going on with female dancers in ballet. In the United States if you don't starve yourself you don't get paid to dance. Ballet dancers are the only ones who get paid... there are hundred of modern dancers and they all work other jobs. Ballet is a job like anything else. It is not sacred. If it was there would not be so much dreadful choreography done mostly by men. There is no debate about this unless you want to uphold cattle calls and very very shorts ones for 8 year olds. The bottom line is they never for one second looked at fredrika's dancing. And they are a publically funded institution that gets a ton of support from SF and they like every other ballet company harrass women in many different ways to have zero body fat. And it has not always been this way so dont pretend there is some big rule about this that we all agree on. it is interesting to me how many men on all the websites insist that women have to be rail thin to dance. Kinda like the right to lifers anti abortion men in the United States. This question is not about Art of any kind nor are those deathly and sick looking women in the fashion industry about clothes. Most of this is my political bias but the objective fact is there is no audition for dance there. It is a sham.


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 Post subject: Re: The Keefer case's aftermath
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2001 7:34 am 
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Krissy,<BR>If you have time can you give us any updates on the case and what is happening w/ it currently? I have been following it from outside San Fransisco and have not heard any updates lately. I"m very interested in following this case closely and writing about it for my women's studies class.


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 Post subject: Re: The Keefer case's aftermath
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2001 4:28 pm 
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Krissy, thank you for posting your comments in this discussion thread. I won't speak about the case as there is already much discussed here and elsewhere. However, in defence of this international online dance community, I must say your reference to "men on all the websites" is inaccurate. In this thread alone, you have 10 women who posted as opposed to three men and the women by far have been more vocal about this issue.


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 Post subject: Re: The Keefer case's aftermath
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2001 7:42 pm 
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Basheva has quoted the reqirements of the SFB school for its entry-level students. Having seen the TV film clips of Frederika, I can see why the SFB School might feel that she did not meet their requirements. I also belive that her mother was aware when she took her to the audition that there was a high probability that she would be rejected. The school has a limited number of places. They do not accept all comers. They made their basic requirements clear. But it seems that Krissy Keefer feels that Fredrika should have been accepted ESPECIALLY because she does not have an "ideal" body type for ballet. Perhaps she should be the recipient of a "postitive discrimination" place at the school? <P>If Fredrika WANTED to audition for the school - i.e. if it were HER decision to audition and take the risk of not being admitted, then that's fine. But if the decision were her mother's then one begins to wonder whether it was a set-up so that Krissy Keefer could maker her own political statement. She has a history of doing this. She has an undoubted right to make political statements - but NOT at the expense of her daughter's well-being. Somewhere I recall having read a statement by Fredrika that she was happy back at her old ballet school. This is great. SFB School never said she shouldn't continue to take ballet classes. SFB School never said that if, in years to come, she turned out to have a lot of talent she couldn't be admitted then. <P>Nothing about this case makes sense unless the whole point was for Krissy to make Fredrika a sacrificial lamb for her personal, political goals. And then to make the mistake of allowing TV coverage of Frederika in a leotard "dancing". If I hadn't seen those clips, I would not have been able to form an opinion for myself. But I DID see them, and so I HAVE formed an opinion, and I think the SFB School was correct in the way it acted.<P>[This message has been edited by Karen (edited March 24, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Karen (edited March 24, 2001).]


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 Post subject: Re: The Keefer case's aftermath
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2001 7:18 am 
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Karen,I think the point is, not to note whether or not Fredrika met those standards (I'm speaking about body type not the other requirements) but whether those standards are fair especially in the case of an eight year old girl who's body obviously will go through numerous changes over the years. Besides that fact we all have been faced with the question of whether the total ballet body image is fair to begin with. I personally feel that a lot needs to be done and a lot may be changing for the better. I"m curious as to how you can say that after seeing a few short clips of Fredrika you can make a judgement on her dancing. Unless in fact you are solely referring to her body type which was not the ONLY requirement nor should it be what her performance is judged on..(now that's my opinion Image ) <P>------------------<BR><BR>"If it's self expression you are looking for the place for you is the analyst's couch" - Merce Cunningham


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 Post subject: Re: The Keefer case's aftermath
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2001 4:55 pm 
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I saw those same clips and I agree with Karen. My opinion is not based on her body type, but on her feet, turn out, general suppleness, grace and porte de bras. <P>The real aftermath will come when Fredrika is 15 or 16, and realizes that she was used by her own mother.<P><BR>


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 Post subject: Re: The Keefer case's aftermath
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2001 10:16 am 
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I still don't see how anyone can judge Fredrika's technique from a short series of clips.....


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 Post subject: Re: The Keefer case's aftermath
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2001 2:26 pm 
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i think this deserves a longer reply than i have the time for right now. but the first point coming to mind, and i saw those clips too, was that she was flying about trying to do steps that a child her age should not be taught to try, like fouettes. anyone else care to continue?


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 Post subject: Re: The Keefer case's aftermath
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2001 3:05 pm 
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I agree completely. It appeared more like an improvisation session than anything else..it looked as if (and often children do this, I know because I did it too) someone had put on a record and said dance! it seemed very free form anyway..besides that..there is no way to make a technical judgement from poorly cut and pasted clips that are so short anyway..which obviously had no teacher saying do this do that..such as a classroom environment or audition would offer..in other words..everyone is evaluating this short little series of edited clips as if they were watching an audition video..<P>------------------<BR><BR>"If it's self expression you are looking for the place for you is the analyst's couch" - Merce Cunningham


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 Post subject: Re: The Keefer case's aftermath
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2001 6:32 pm 
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but i saw something else, it was a performance video, and if memory serves me correctly it was something like waltz of the flowers with older teens dancing around her in the middle! that's part of what i meant.


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 Post subject: Re: The Keefer case's aftermath
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2001 7:32 pm 
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Must admit..I havn't seen that clip.. I've seen the photos and clips of her dancing in the studio in her leotard, alone.<P>------------------<BR><BR>"If it's self expression you are looking for the place for you is the analyst's couch" - Merce Cunningham


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 Post subject: Re: The Keefer case's aftermath
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2001 8:13 am 
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I saw the same clip, not only that but I saw her perform live. She did Clara in the Nutcracker with my first ballet school. So I saw 3 acts of her dancing and acting. Just to ask the question , how much time would you think fair to assess a dancer in an audition? I have been to some where I have done one step and heard "Next". It is the nature of the beast. Not everyone is right for every part or place.


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 Post subject: Re: The Keefer case's aftermath
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2001 2:04 pm 
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This is true Lucy, often at auditions if the director/teacher sees something right off they don't like they will dismiss the student..my only point beforehand was watching a clip that has been edited for t.v. or the internet is not like watching an auditonee in person..or seeing a real video specifically made for an audition.<P>------------------<BR><BR>"If it's self expression you are looking for the place for you is the analyst's couch" - Merce Cunningham


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