I agree with you Marie...we need to offer alternative activity classes in place of PE. NOT N-O-T, do away with it altogher!!

I was surprised to see so many people commenting that, at some point, "recess" disappeared, and "PE" took its place. I grew up in England, and we had "playtime" and organised Physical Education and team games classes, right through to the age of eighteen. I even went to a University that required Physical Education in the first year. <P>Fran<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>Fran

I guess recess disappeared when there was no time for it anymore.<P>Sort of the same way lunch is disappearing now. They only have a few minutes for lunch now. And by the time they get through the long lunch lines, they don't have time to eat it. You generally don't have "room mothers" helping get the kids their lunches and stuff after third grade. Starting about 4th grade it's a universal complaint among the mothers. They say that by the time the kids get through line with their tray and sit down, they are told it's time to go back to class. The kids come home tired, cranky and hungry. They eat late in the day.<P>Then all of the mothers get on a bandwagon about making their kids lunches. But then they have huge book bags AND a lunch box, AND a musical instrument to carry. Try getting on the bus with all THAT.<P>Teenagers just tend to skip lunch altogether. The salad bar and anything "quick" is gone after first session lunch anyway. It's always empty for 2nd and 3rd session lunch.<P>They go to school from 7:20 (before they are awake)and get out at 2:40 (middle school and high school) They have 7 subjects and endless assemblies to discuss "social matters" crammed in there. Most of them stay for "late bus" everyday to participate in sports or their clubs. Or mandatory band/orchestra/choral/theatre rehearsals. So they get home about 4:30 or so.<P>They are given time to go to their lockers twice a day. To cut down on time lost between classes, and to make sure drugs aren't passed etc during the day. So all of their travels through the school bldg. are with every book they own.<P>Just no time for play it seems.

I just wanted to say that I'm a freshman in highschool and absolutely LOVE my P.E. class! It's called dance for health and is taught by a wonderful teacher. However, I have had my share of horrible P.E. experiences. In the 8th grade we were doing our running fitness tests. We started with the sprinting test and I sprained my ankle badly (I had weak ankles at the time due to tendonitis), and the teacher told my it wasn't sprained it was just a little sore (yeah right). So, I had to do the next running test (the two mile run) with a very badly sprained ankle because the teacher thought I was just trying to get out of the run. Boy did she feel bad when I came the next day with crutches and a note from my doctor saying I couldn't participate for a month.<BR> Anyway, just thought I'd share my experiences. And, I think that P.E. is a good idea and works well if you have a choice of classes.

JaneGrey... about lunch. You're right. we have an 18-minute lunch at 1:55 because I have 3rd lunch... there are 150 or so of us in the lunch, and yes, all the food worth eating is gone. So a LOT of us skip lunch. And being 8th graders, why would most of us want to take a lunch? So uncool, lol. Not to mention I have lunch right after PE, in which we don't get to stop working until the bell rings and we are required to shower by our PE teacher (yes, the Oprah-twinkie guy) with his little clipboard. Then we have to get dressed and get to lunch- those of us who have 3rd lunch- with about 10 minutes left tops. OY. I can't wait til high school, when PE won't be required after sopho year, but the HS i will go to has no alternatives (bummer). <BR> And... uh-huh, we do have to carry all our books around! YAY! 1 math, 1 health, 1 science, 1 history, 2 english, band folder, choir music, binder, health, science and history binders, and lunch (if we dare to take one). Its crazy. <BR>

Thanks Zoe.<P>You are a good "sanity" check for me. Good to know that I do know what I'm talking about every ONCE in a while <P>Sometimes I wondered if the kids in Fx Cty were the only kids in the USA that were required to swallow their lunch whole.<P>I just can't figure out why they go through the PRETENSE of serving lunch.<P>Sometimes you get a "cool" teacher that understands and lets you bring anything that isn't too messy with you back to class to finish.<P>I've talked to moms across the county enough to know that the "carry your coat and every book you own from room to room" is starting to spread outside of the urban areas and across the US.<P>Have YOU ever had PE at 7:20am?<P>

I had to dance at 8:30 am for four years in University (I had to get up at 6 to get there). And I've been in class at 6 am to be ready to perform at 8 am. Boo-hoo!

This will date me - but - when I went to school we could go to our lockers whenever we wanted to - between every class period - because THERE WERE NO DRUGS OR WEAPONS. Nope - we didn't do drugs or weapons. The WORST that ever happened was someone got caught with a cigarette - an unlighted one. And, yes, this was a big city high school. There were over 600 kids in my graduating class. <P>I do remember having enough food in the lunchroom to eat - and there was time to eat it too. After school I got on the bus and a train and I went to work in a typing pool in downtown Philadelphia, came home at 6 p.m., cooked supper for the family (my mother and father both worked full time), did my homework, helped my young sister with hers. After supper there were the dishes and more homework, and chores. No, this is not a complaint - at all - my help in the family was needed. <P>As for PE at 7:20 - when I was teaching in the Performing Arts High School - the first ballet class of the day was at 7:20 a.m. - try doing a grand jete' at that hour.<P>However, I have also performed at various schools - as part of my efforts at an out-reach program - for morning assemblies. That means you do a barre warmup at 6 a.m. ACK - Not complaining about that either - I chose to do it. <P>Actually it had a side benefit - by the time I REALLY woke up - the class was over LOL.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Basheva (edited January 31, 2001).]

Ahhhh, but 7:20 is different when you are teaching. You probably didn't come home from cheering at a game at 11:00 and do homework until 3:30 am <P>And teenagers are just wired with different sleep patterns anyway they say.<P>I think it's even different in college <P>My daughter got promoted to another level in ballet this second semester of her freshman year. Ballet technique is at 9 now instead of 8. She's "diggin" on it.<P>But everything they felt uncomfortable about in high school, they seem to forget in college. I went to breakfast with her the other morning. 98% of the folks in the cafeteria had their pajamas on (it's a coed college) and none of them had fixed their hair or face She SAYS lots go to the first class of the day like that. A year ago, she wouldn't go out to get the MAIL for me unless she had done her hair.<P>Oh well, it's a college that grew up around a music and dance conservatory. Maybe those kids are just "different". I couldn't imagine my oldest ever having done that.<P>I don't mind "telling the truth". I hit 49 next month. School is certainly "different" for my kids than it was for me. My locker was never conveniently located, but if I COULD get to it in the five minutes between classes, I was ALLOWED to. (It was just so HARD to. The fire marshall would have shut that place down these days. We just moved in one huge tight mass down the halls. Your prayer was that you didn't end up being pushed into somebody ELSE's locker.)

yeah, sleep is messed up for us these days. <BR>i have had PE first thing, at 7:30. not cool.

Well, I still think the schools should have PE - but I think it should be skilled based - like swimming, or dance, or field sports, or tennis, or volleyball, etc. In my opinion there is much to be gained. <P>Cheering at a game and coming home at 11 p.m. is a choice one makes...........

Well, it's not EXACTLY a "choice" if you want to go to school with any kind of scholarship money in your pocket.<P>These colleges dole it out for "well rounded individuals" you know. And they set the definition of what that IS.<P>Which is kinda stressful.<P>So if you aren't cheering, you are volunteering as a candy stripper or playing basketball or traveling to swim meets, or involved with the Young Democrats or Young Republicans or SOMETHING that demands lots of your time in the evenings.<P>Lots of colleges give even the first violin player MORE money to "go" to their school, if he managed to play that violin while managing the baseball team, and starring on the debate team too.<P>So no, lots of kids do all this stuff out of "financial need". Easier to get accepted to a program (even an arts program) than to pay for it.<P>They have to start thinking about "resume'" building in 8th grade.<P>You might get the largest "dance dept" Or "visual arts dept" scholarship and STILL not be able to pay the total cost of attending a dance program. So you also compete for the Rotary scholarship, the Optimist, etc. Which means you have to have logged plenty of "community service" hours AND spent a lot of time on keeping your grades up.

This has been quite a thread. Quite an impassioned thread. I was thinking about it while walking to the office this morning.<P>A couple of things:<BR>My mom was one of 12 children. Her mother singlehandedly raised them by running a tavern (a tavern in Wisconsin is much like the ones in Europe -- family run with excellent food, that also happen to serve drinks at a bar). They grew up during the Depression. There was no PE. They helped their mother run the tavern and keep house, grew fresh vegetables in the back yard, and got by as best they could. Every picture of her and her sisters shows drop dead gorgeous young ladies with creamy skin, lustrous hair, and beautiful figures. My mom could have been Maureen O'Hara's twin sister. My mom has never done a formal exercise in her life. She is now in her 70s and I still envy her figure. She walks faster than anyone I know, and has the cutest set of legs, and not an ounce of fat on her hips or butt after 11 pregnancies herself. When I've tried to get her to relax and watch a movie with me instead of ironing (my underwear!!!! -- "because it looks better in the drawers" -- can you believe?!?), she says, "This IS relaxing to me. I grew up so poor but we always knew we could look good if our clothes were clean and pressed." Even though they are now quite well off and reaping the fruits of their labors, she likes to do this to remember where she came from. <P>I believe that if we were to return to a more sustainable way of life, such as in the Depression, we and our children would get plenty of exercise and go to bed with a better feeling of well being.<P>However, given the times we live in, I am not against incorporating physical activity into a student's day. But it should have some real benefit to it and not just be an added stressor. I was watching "Sunday Morning" with Charles Osgood not long ago, and saw that someone had introduced ballroom dancing to the New York City public school system, starting with a school that, I believe, was largely comprised of children from lower income families. This caught on so well that it spread throughout the city and there are now competitions between the schools that the children just seem to love. If any of the contributors (perhaps in the NYC area)to this site are familiar with this program, I'd love to know more about it. This is the kind of thing I would like to see introduced more. It brings an aesthetic to physical activity, gets the children to respect and accept one another, improves their social skills, and instills a great feeling of self worth.

Perhaps the reason that PE is almost universally feared or detested is that, at an age when virtually every youngster is MOST concerned about how they measure up to everyone around them, they are put in a situation where they are in direct competition with their peers.<P>If you are not the best at what is done, you show off any deficiency - real or imagined - and it is increased exponentially by your own perception of yourself. Even in a team sport, the other members of the team know who the best athlete is, and thus come up short. <P>I wonder if the attitude would change if every student could choose the group of kids with whom they took the class; and/or perhaps be involved in setting individual goals for themselves? <P>Occassionally, it just takes time to learn that there will always be someone a little better at any task than yourself - if not now, then give it a year or two - and you might as well be happy being the best that you can be.<P>

Wordfox -- those are valuable comments.<P>What I am also hearing, however, in many of the prior comments is a practical matter, particularly for females. Many would prefer to get good and sweaty after their academics are over for the day as opposed to right in the middle (I'm not talking about dance majors in college, where we were, or are, all used to the way it was, or is). I would love to have had swimming or track, etc. after school, had Title 19 been in place then. <P>Even now, my work schedule is arranged so that I take class in the a.m., then get cleaned up and go to work. Or, if my scheduled demands otherwise, go home and get a quick bite, then take class in the evening. <P>The other thing is that as an adult I'm also a lot more comfortable in my own skin than I was as a teenager. I don't set my hair or use makeup, etc., now, but I empathize with girls feeling embarrassed to return to class after mid-day workouts.