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 Post subject: Kirov & Rev. Moon - 2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2001 7:07 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2001 12:01 am
Posts: 270
Location: Wisconsin
Hi - I don't know if this is appropriate, since this is my first post on the boards Image<P>I suppose you are all aware that the Kirov ballet is funded and backed the Rev. Moon and his Unification Church...many people (including myself) refuse to support his organization. Yet parents still continue to send their children to the Kirov's summer intensives.<P>What is your opinion? If you're clueless as to this topic, check out this excellet article: <A HREF="http://www.danceart.com/cults/kirov.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.danceart.com/cults/kirov.htm</A>


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 Post subject: Re: Kirov & Rev. Moon - 2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2001 7:44 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 90
Location: Reston,VA
I've always felt that people SHOULD know about any religious affliation with ANY program for children.<P>But after they know, I figure it's THEIR business.<P>There ARE folks that feel it's no worse to give money to the Moonies than to the Methodist folks at SMU or the LDS at BYU.<P>What is so strange to ME, is that folks "talk amongst themselves ABOUT the Kirov" but hardly EVER go straight TO them for answers.<P>I've emailed Damien Andersen (Anderson? ) about the issue YEARS ago. They answer very matter of factly. Damien is an official spokesperson for the Unification Church. You can find lots of references to him on the web and on usenet.<P>I don't have all that info anymore, 'cause for me the issue was settled years ago. <P>Do I want to support Moon? No.<P>Do I think less of folks that KNOW what they are doing and go there? No.<P>Do I get mega chuckles out of folks that profess PUBLICLY to oppose him, yet "rationalize it away" if their kid gets accepted and they want to send them? Yes.<P>The dance world is small enough as it is. If we start drawing lines about "who can hire whomever" according to where they were trained, or whether or not we are gonna TALK to each other according to where we go to school, it's only going to get smaller.<P>One man's religion is another man's cult.<P><p>[This message has been edited by JaneGrey (edited February 05, 2001).]

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'God grant you all your desires and accept my own hearty thanks for all your attention to me. Although indeed, those attentions have tried me more than death can now terrify me.'<P>Lady Jane Grey<BR>Wife of Guildford, Lord Dudley King Consort<BR>Daughter of Henry Grey Marquis of Dorset, Duke of Suffolk


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 Post subject: Re: Kirov & Rev. Moon - 2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2001 8:01 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA USA
Welcome Bree!! YOu are from Stevens Point? Do you know Joan Karlen? I think she MIGHT teach at the University there in the Dance Program. She is an old friend from my NY days.<BR>About your posting..I DID NOT know that about the Kirov!! WOW! I know the Moon organization supported another ballet co. years ago called the "Universal Ballet" or something like that. What happened to them I wonder. I wonder what's "in" all this for the Moon organization? Running a ballet co. is not exactly a money making proposition. Do they do proselytizing through this effort--that doesn't make much sense to me either..I'm stumped...Anyone?


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 Post subject: Re: Kirov & Rev. Moon - 2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2001 8:13 am 
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Well Trina, he BOUGHT the right to use the name "Kirov" years ago. He renamed the Universal Ballet Academy in DC accordingly.<P>At the time, there WAS a VERY strong connection, in that he provided haven for lots of Kirov folks that wanted to leave the Soviet Union.<P>Some of them are still there.<P>In a nutshell, it's gives "respectability" to his organization.<P>The Ballet "Company" that he runs is the "Universal Ballet" in Seoul Korea. He hopes that all of his graduates will want to dance someday for the "glorification" of the Unification Church (the moonie church).<P><BR>Now lots of folks felt that by sending their kid to the DC school that they had some "inside connection" to possibly sending them to the Kirov in Russia. That actually HAPPENED once or twice. Lot's didn't know about the association with his church or The Universal Ballet Company. <P>I've let folks know of the connection that I felt would be EMBARRASSED by it if they wandered in under the wrong impression. Good fundamentalist Christians types that fight this stuff MIGHT be upset if their kids pic ended up in the Washington Times in a cuddle shot with Moon. (it's happened.)<P>I've also known LOTS of folks that are AWARE of the afflication and are no more alarmed or worried over it than if their kid was being sent to a school that also offered Yoga in some "New Age" variety in another room while their kid took ballet in the next.<P>These folks figure that their family relationships and their own religious identities are intact enough that they can go there with no worry.<P>As do Catholic kids that attend dance programs with the Mormons and the Methodists, or Instrumental programs at many of the Lutheran colleges.<P><p>[This message has been edited by JaneGrey (edited February 05, 2001).]

_________________
'God grant you all your desires and accept my own hearty thanks for all your attention to me. Although indeed, those attentions have tried me more than death can now terrify me.'<P>Lady Jane Grey<BR>Wife of Guildford, Lord Dudley King Consort<BR>Daughter of Henry Grey Marquis of Dorset, Duke of Suffolk


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 Post subject: Re: Kirov & Rev. Moon - 2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2001 8:27 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 24, 1999 11:01 pm
Posts: 19975
Location: London, England; Tallinn, Estonia
Hi Bree! And welcome to criticaldance. Your posting is entirely relevant for the 'Issues' forum and in fact we had an extensive discussion on this theme last year. Here is the link to the earlier topic:<P><A HREF=../../../ubb/Forum3/HTML/000090.html>The Kirov and Rev. Moon topic</A> <P>I have now closed that topic so that the discussion can continue here and I have added the number 2 to this title just to be clear about the two topics. Looking forward to this continuing discussion and further contributions from you. <P>Hope you feel at home here. If not, do tell us why!


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 Post subject: Re: Kirov & Rev. Moon - 2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2001 8:48 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA USA
Is the Moon church considered Christian, fundamentalist, what? They had a huge headquarters in NY for a while; but didn't they run into tax problems in the US years ago? <BR>Clarification..does the church completely underwrite the co., or merely make contributions? I know for instance, that the Mormon church is quite heavily involved with some dance compnies in Utah, giving them lots of support, at least.<BR>One additional question--is the Moon church very open (publicizing)about their support of the Kirov? If they are, it would seem that they've done "full disclosure" and there shouldn't be any problem, as long as folks know what their involvement is--no? That way folks can make an informed choice about whether or not they want to be involved?<BR>Bree-not to worry: the "Issues" forum is specifically geared to "controversial" subjects. Not sure if that's what you meant by "appropriate" in your posting...anyway..WELCOME!!<P>[This message has been edited by trina (edited February 05, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by trina (edited February 05, 2001).]


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 Post subject: Re: Kirov & Rev. Moon - 2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2001 9:02 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 12:01 am
Posts: 275
Location: California
ANY school will ultimately reflect the personal perspective of the director(s). This might reflect their religious beliefs, political inclination, sexual orientation, or personality type (i.e. pessimist vs. optimist). <P>An uncomfortable point of view might be that if American parents are looking for a healthy, happy, supportive, morally upright and safe art form in which to involve their children, they may very well be looking in the wrong direction. As wonderful as the ethereal beauty represented on stage might be, I have seldom come across dancers whose personal lives even faintly resemble the roles they portray. <P>You can judge a school by the dancers it produces, or you can judge a school by the people it produces; or both. That's the decision that parents need to make. To start defining the worth of the institution by the beliefs of its directors adds an undercurrent that will ultimately bring dissension, recrimination and animosity to the artform.


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 Post subject: Re: Kirov & Rev. Moon - 2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2001 9:06 am 
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Location: Reston,VA
My understanding is that Moon is the "sole" benefactor of the Kirov Academy in Washington DC.<P>I am not sure about the Universal Ballet in Seoul Korea. Never researched it.<P>As to whether they are "Christian" etc etc. is fuel for debate.<P>The baptists don't consider the LDS to be Christian. But the LDS certainly considers themselves Christian. They say that Christ gave a second revelation on this (NA)continent.<P>Moon claims that with his wife, he is the "True Father" and they are the "True Parents" He is "god in man" on earth. More or less says that Christs' mission on earth was unfulfilled because he never married. And he is here to fulfill that mission.

_________________
'God grant you all your desires and accept my own hearty thanks for all your attention to me. Although indeed, those attentions have tried me more than death can now terrify me.'<P>Lady Jane Grey<BR>Wife of Guildford, Lord Dudley King Consort<BR>Daughter of Henry Grey Marquis of Dorset, Duke of Suffolk


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 Post subject: Re: Kirov & Rev. Moon - 2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2001 9:07 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA USA
Wordfox--does the church have actual involvement in the directorship of the company--I'm not clear on this? Also, what are these objectionable percepts which the church espouses which you hint at...I guess I'm not well informed about this group..sorry!?<BR>


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 Post subject: Re: Kirov & Rev. Moon - 2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2001 9:12 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA USA
Again.."let the buyer beware". If the church is open and forthcoming about their involvement in the school/company, and parents send their kids to the school or whatever, that's the parent's decision. In a free market democracy, people have choices, as consumers of good or services, to pick and choose what they buy or what services they partake in. There are a "gagillion" (like that new number I just made up!) dance schools out there..they don't have to go there!


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 Post subject: Re: Kirov & Rev. Moon - 2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2001 9:30 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 13071
Location: San Diego, California, USA
Hello Bree - it's so nice to see you here, my friend !! Look at what a great thread you started.<P>I agree with Trina - as long as the school is open about its affiliation - then the buyer choses with informed consent.<P>I am not so sure that I like the idea of "buying" the Kirov name, however. But, then, the name is not mine to sell and if it had been maybe I would have "sold" it. Names are property too.


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 Post subject: Re: Kirov & Rev. Moon - 2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2001 10:36 am 
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Posts: 498
Location: neworleans, louisiana
Hmmmmm. Christian? Fundamentalist? <P>I don't theeeeeeeeenk so. There is a far cry between cult and religion. As a journalist who has often immersed herself so as to write first person about her topics, I can speak of this with some confidence. By the way, Basheva, are you familiar with Father and Mother Divine in Philly? I livedamong their followers for almost two months and later wrote about it. <P>I am not aware of any Christian religions that tell children to forsake their parents in the name of the cult. Even Rev. Moon's children have spoken of his abuse on investigative news programs, and dang, I wish I could think of the one that recently went into depth on this. I recall one summer when a fresh faced young girl came into my office and said she was selling earrings to earn money for summer camp. She seemed so sweet that I didn't bother asking for much information, but did wonder a little when writing the check, she told me to make it out to a series of capital letters that didn't mean anything to me -- not until I got the canceled check back with "Unification Church -- Rev. Moon" stamped on it. Secrecy for a cause.<P>Apparently money talks. If you've got enough, you can buy or sell whatever you want, including purchasing 'credibility' with a ballet company.


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 Post subject: Re: Kirov & Rev. Moon - 2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2001 10:46 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 12:01 am
Posts: 275
Location: California
Trina: I am somewhat removed from recent developments regarding the Rev. Moon. I know that years ago, he was much deprecated in the conservative christian community as the leader of a cult. I imagine he still is, though I believe the public persona of the church has changed somewhat since its inception (not quite as public in their proselytizing, if I am not mistaken.)<P>The Lady (JaneGrey - above) probably has more accurate information than I do. I DO know that several years ago, many dancers from around the world flocked to Asia to be part of his ballet company there. It did not seem to suffer any of the financial problems of other companies because of the seemingly unlimited financial resources available. <P>Questionable precepts will always be in the eye of the beholder. The Moon-centrism might certainly be constued as a deviation from the central prominence of Jesus in the Christian faith. But then, in some very conservative Christian circles, Catholicism is considered as akin to a cult, and the Pope the Antichrist. (Ironic, as the Catholic church was the principal means for the promulgation of Christianity for more than fourteen centuries.)<P>Again, if the goal is dance training, that needs to be the focus in the choice of a school. Hopefully, it can be achieved in an atmosphere that is both positive and healthy for the youngster; and leave the moral, religious and philosophical training for the home. If the two are in conflict, then everyone should realize which of the two needs to be changed - the dance school.


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 Post subject: Re: Kirov & Rev. Moon - 2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2001 10:47 am 
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Location: Wisconsin
TRINA -<P>Yes, Joan Karlan is still here, shakin' things up as usual Image Unfortunately I am not involved in the dance program at the university, but I can assure you it is wonderful. Her email is jkarlan@uwsp.edu if you'd care to get back in contact Image


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 Post subject: Re: Kirov & Rev. Moon - 2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2001 10:54 am 
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Location: San Diego, California, USA
Christina - I am not familiar with Mother and Father Divine in Philadelphia - I left the city in 1964 as a bride and my focus was on buying bath towels - at the time LOL.<P>It would be interesting to know how Rev. Moon became interested in the ballet. Did he just fall in love with it as an art form?


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