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 Post subject: Re: Keefer Case and Body Image - BIG Forum
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2001 9:40 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 22, 1999 11:01 pm
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Location: SF Bay Area
Ah, I see this can turn into yet another <I>interesting</I> topic on the Keefer case (how many threads do we have now on this case?). However, perhaps we best keep it interesting without fanning the flames.<P>Also, just a note to say that SFB is aware of this thread.


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 Post subject: Re: Keefer Case and Body Image - BIG Forum
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2001 10:04 pm 
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Location: Washington St.
Glad I could be of help. Image<P>The past two nights I went to the recital of a good school in town which has the reputation of turning out professional dancers on an annual basis. (It is the about the closest we have to a pre-pro school in my area.) I was very pleased to see many larger girls dancing in the advanced class. They certainly did not have a thin ballet physique, but boy could they dance. And one girl especially was very charismatic: it was a joy to watch her on stage. This was very good for me to see! Image


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 Post subject: Re: Keefer Case and Body Image - BIG Forum
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2001 1:42 pm 
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I'd hate to see this turn into a discussion of who's right and who's wrong as far as remembering and feeling history. I know from working around a school myself that what teachers interpret and what students interpret can be two vastly different things. One of the amazing things about this web site is that you may very well run into people that you know throughout the dance world, and this once again proves it can happen on CD! Here's a former student, and a person I assume to be either a staffer or teacher at the school. I think it's great!<P>And I think it also serves to remind us all that what adults may understand as one thing, may not be interpreted by students in the same way. Sometimes it's hard to remember that.


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 Post subject: Re: Keefer Case and Body Image - BIG Forum
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2001 1:23 am 
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Well said, Elaine. CD is pretty unique, in my opinion, in uniting all members of the dance world - dancers, teachers, dance administrators and directors, dance-goers etc etc in dialogue. We aim to maintain healthy debate from balanced argument!


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 Post subject: Re: Keefer Case and Body Image - BIG Forum
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2001 1:38 pm 
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Posts: 17498
Location: SF Bay Area
Here's something to stir up some controversy:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Periodic Heart Trouble</B><P>Randy Dotinga, HealthScoutNews Reporter<P>...<P>As many as 40 percent of female athletes have irregular menstrual cycles or none at all, Hoch says. "This is especially a problem in sports where there's an emphasis on leanness and being thin, like long-distance running, <B>ballet</B>, figure skating, gymnastics or crew [rowing]."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><A HREF="http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/hsn/20010622/hl/periodic_heart_trouble_1.html" TARGET=_blank><B>More</B></A>


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 Post subject: Re: Keefer Case and Body Image - BIG Forum
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2001 6:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 13071
Location: San Diego, California, USA
Nature intended the female body to give birth to and nurture children. And, to nature all else is secondary. To accomplish that imperative takes a certain amount of fat. That is why women have more fat in their tissues. A man of the same size as a woman is stronger because his muscle tissue is leaner. He was made for different things - a provider and a defender.<P>Studies have shown that generally speaking during a famine the female reproductive system shuts down. When her diet and fat content is insufficient to the nurture of an infant, nature shuts down that facility (or the infant is born with problems). And she loses the protections that go along with healthy production of estrogen - strong bones, healthy heart function.<P>Estrogen is produced in the female reproductive system AND in fat cells and stored in fat cells. So, when the female lacks the requisite amount of fat in her diet and in her body, the estrogen production and storage is incapacitated. <P>Should women exercise? dance? play sports? of course....but with these parameters in mind.


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 Post subject: Re: Keefer Case and Body Image - BIG Forum
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2001 12:58 pm 
I've havent seen the San Jose Ballet yet (formally San jose Cleveland ballet) but if you check out there site there are a few Ballenchine type dancers-otherwise for the most part the women look-HEALTHY;partically Karen Gabay and Maydee Pena. Not all of the are ellongated either-Grethel Domingo-who is now with the Diablo Ballet-is tiny with a very short neck.<BR> Jose Mateo's (of Ballet Theater Of Boston's)motto is everyBODY deserves to dance.His dancers for the most part seem very healthy as well....I also found out there is no age limit to be in his company.<BR> SO SOME COMPANIES ARE MAKING STRIDES..<BR>DH,Dale(Angela)<BR>


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 Post subject: Re: Keefer Case and Body Image - BIG Forum
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2001 1:07 pm 
I agree 100% Basheva when you talk about fat on a woman. I one of my science classes fat also PROTECTS the body from injuries.Having excess fat MAY be limiting of course,but for the most part fat plays an important role....<BR> With very thin dancers having so little on them it ONLY makes sense why they are prone to severe injury. Ballet seems hard for the body if there is so little fat on a dancer.<BR> Karen Gabay said she is more rounder then other dancers-perhaps this is why shes lasted so long.....<BR>DH(angela) <P><BR>


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 Post subject: Re: Keefer Case and Body Image - BIG Forum
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2001 8:11 pm 
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Location: Seattle, WA USA
Just a quick basic nutritional note: fat and carbohydrate are the main sources of energry in the body. So if you "cut back" on these for any length of time, you're doing "funky" things to your body! Not a pretty thought. Protein is for making enzymes, hormones and repairing/rebuilding bones, tissue and muscles.


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 Post subject: Re: Keefer Case and Body Image - BIG Forum
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2001 8:02 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 22, 1999 11:01 pm
Posts: 17498
Location: SF Bay Area
Okay... what can I say here... without getting into trouble... and without seeming biased... Image<P>Yes, Angela, Ballet San Jose does have "non-typical" body types. However, I wouldn't necessarily use them as a model, as their dancing overall especially in Balanchine works -- bar some exceptions like Maydee Pena, Karen Gabay and Grethel Domingo for example -- are not necessarily the best. In fact, their "rendition" of <I>Serenade</I>... um... took me by surprise, especially when compared to NYCB's and SFB's.<P>It is interesting you mention Domingo, as her new company Diablo Ballet is probably a better model that serves better your illustration of "non-typical" body types that excel (especially in the company's performances of "rare Balanchine works," which is one of their mandates). I'll have to recuse myself from elaborating but others here have seen this company and perhaps will chime in.<P>However, I can talk about San Francisco Ballet itself, whose school is in the middle of this controversy. If you look at the SFB dancers, you will find more than a few who wouldn't necessarily be considered the "typical ballet" type. I won't embarrass the dancers (and myself) by singling them out Image but you do have various shapes and sizes in the company. For me, that is part of the appeal of companies like SFB (and Diablo), whose focus is on talent. And I dare anyone who doesn't think SFB isn't among the best companies in the world.


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 Post subject: Re: Keefer Case and Body Image - BIG Forum
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2001 8:19 am 
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Azlan,<P>A disinterested sidenote on your comment on SFB's diverse body types: I pointed this out to someone the other day, citing dancers like Tina LeBlanc, and her rejoinder was that these dancers of unusual body type don't come up from the SFB school, that they have to train elsewhere and get into the corps elsewhere and join the company when they're at the highest level and their talent is recognized. I wonder if there is any truth to this? Honestly I don't know, but it is an interesting distinction, whether those bodies are accepted into the company from elsewhere or whether they're trained in the school. I would argue that it's not such a bad thing if they're not trained in the school. It's so difficult to spot real talent in a child, that it makes sense to then start with physical dimensions as a baseline and see what happens from there. And that if talent is being trained elsewhere, where the baseline body standard is lowered, talent will find its way into the best companies anyway. Well like I say I am split on this.


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 Post subject: Re: Keefer Case and Body Image - BIG Forum
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2001 11:08 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2001 11:01 pm
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Location: El Granada, CA, USA
I would like to suggest some rebuttals to that comment about the dancers not coming from the school.<P>Kristin Long<BR>Megan Low<BR>Joanna Berman<BR>Dalene Bramer<P>All are NOT unhealthfully thin (some are quite short) and came from the school.


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 Post subject: Re: Keefer Case and Body Image - BIG Forum
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2001 11:29 am 
Thanks for your comment Azlan,and others. I guess I'll HAVE to take a trip to California and judge for myself-I know from what I've read that San Jose Ballet is SUPPOSE to be one of the top ten companies-and NYCB gave them a nice review on there website on one of there performances. I remember someone saying that the dancers at NYCB arent as thin as they use to be;I well ever since the tragic death of Heidi Guenther folks are VERY scared. Even if Mrs Guenther llooses the case entirely this will have a negative effect on the Boston Ballet.<BR> Peter Martins I've read has started a wellness program for dancers which talks about proper nutrition;I notice also that he has a VISIBLE Black dancer in his company named ASHLEY ASHE-remember the comment about Black female dancers not being considered ideal ballerinas at one time?<BR> ALSO,read this article on San Jose Ballet and its SFB trained principle DALIA RAWSON and her commets on the case and image:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.metroactive.com/papers/saratoga.news/01.10.01/cover-0102.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.metroactive.com/papers/saratoga.<BR>news/01.10.01/cover-0102.html</A> <p>[This message has been edited by Stuart Sweeney (edited July 03, 2001).]


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 Post subject: Re: Keefer Case and Body Image - BIG Forum
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2001 12:03 pm 
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Posts: 269
Thank you LMCTech for those examples. I could not think of any off the top of my head and was hoping someone would chime in and supply some.


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 Post subject: Re: Keefer Case and Body Image - BIG Forum
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2001 12:51 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 22, 1999 11:01 pm
Posts: 17498
Location: SF Bay Area
Thanks, Angela. Love this quote from the article:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>There's nothing cookie-cutter about the BSJSV lineup. Nahat doesn't worry about his dancers being the same height: He looks for artistry...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>As for the Top Ten assertion, I'll let others address that (I'm in enough trouble as it is Image ). Or you can make your own assessment by visiting the "San Francisco-San Jose Greater Bay Area."<p>[This message has been edited by Azlan (edited July 03, 2001).]


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