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 Post subject: Cheating
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2001 4:40 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 12:01 am
Posts: 442
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
How often we cheat to compensate for lack of flexibilty, etc. what kind of problems did you guys have with that, and how'd you overcome the urge? I, for one, know that in certain strecthes in class, I might unwittingly rotate my hip to make my leg go further, or things like that! Image


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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2001 4:51 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 13071
Location: San Diego, California, USA
<B>GASP!!!</B> You rotate your hip???? Wow!!<P>Well, let's see what I have done to cheat. Sometimes I have started as far down the diagonal as I thought I could get away with if we were doing something REALLY yukky.<P> Like one day in a VERY large studio we were doing, step (NOT pas de couru or a glissade) but just STEP, tour jeté, cabriole, cabriole. It was SOOOOOOOOOO slow, I thought I would just die before I got to the end of the diagonal. On the fourth time down that diagonal - I cheated, YEP - I did. Started as far down the diagonal as I thought I could get away with.<P>And I know one very famous ballerina who pushed the handle of the clock ahead one day........<P>So you see, Bebounce, you have lots of company.<p>[This message has been edited by Basheva (edited June 08, 2001).]


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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2001 5:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 11:01 pm
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Location: San Diego, California, USA
On the other hand - let me ask you a question, Bebounce, when you have considered cheating do you think you would have gained anything?<P>You don't need to answer that here...but answer it in your head.<p>[This message has been edited by Basheva (edited June 08, 2001).]


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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2001 5:27 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 12:01 am
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Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
I know I was supposed to answer in my head but... I don't do it in class (except for the starting further down the diagoonal thing, once in a blue moon!), just in stretches when I occasionally feel that I am being compared to the other, more flexible people. That rotating hip thing is like when you bring your leg to your in parallel, and you are on your back-it's a stretch we do in class. Sometimes I just feel so insecure lack flexibility in some places, but I get home and do it right, cuz I feel so guilty! Image


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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2001 6:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 13071
Location: San Diego, California, USA
LOL - guilt is a wonderful thing isn't it?


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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2001 4:29 am 
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Joined: Sat May 26, 2001 11:01 pm
Posts: 69
Location: Singapore
i've always worried about my turnout, because i never know if i'm rolling or not. sometimes during class i'd make my fifth position more 'closed', so it would feel better, but i've discovered it doesn't look any better in the mirror. also, on the occasional times when my teacher makes us 'cool down' by doing splits and things, i'm usually so tired i don't really push myself to split. but i feel terrible after that.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2001 4:31 am 
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Joined: Sat May 26, 2001 11:01 pm
Posts: 69
Location: Singapore
oops.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2001 5:27 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 11:01 pm
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Location: San Diego, California, USA
That's ok - Pearl - I cleaned it up (Pearl's post came up twice).<P>Think of "guilt" as not something to feel terrible about, but as something to make you want to do better next time. I think it is a good idea to do those stretches after the barre, when one is warmed up but not yet tired. But there are other valid ways to do it - like after class.<P>The test of how closed your fifth position should be is by how otherwise stable you are, in your hips, not rolling on your feet/ankles, and the rest of the placement of your body. A tightly closed fifth position does you no good if it interferes with the rest of your placement. <P>But I think you know that, don't you?<P>


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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2001 11:49 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 26, 2001 11:01 pm
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Location: Singapore
yes, i do. though i wish i had perfect turnout and flexibility and...but i guess we're never satisfied with what we have...at leats, i'm not.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2001 4:32 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 11:01 pm
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Location: San Diego, California, USA
Unfortunately we are not satisfied with what we have, that's true, you are right about that.<P>And nothing is ever going to be perfect. There probably is no such thing. Sometimes when you see a great performance and you think "that was perfect", probably the dancer thinks it wasn't perfect. Dancers are seldom really happy with things. They always want it to be better.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2001 10:28 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 12:01 am
Posts: 1278
Location: Basking Ridge, New Jersey, USA
I had a friend who reached the rank of principal dancer with a major company in N.Y.<BR>I remember going to see her perform the lead in a full-length classic, going backstage to visit with her afterwards, and having her go over all the things she had been dissatisfied with in her performance. Now, I know quite a bit about ballet, had seen that particular piece many times, and thought she had done a magnificent job with it. But she felt otherwise. So, if you are dissatisfied with some aspect of your dancing, you are in good company!<P>Ballet has enough complexity and physical demands (before we even get to artistry) that we're never going to be perfect at it. We may have glimpses and moments when it all comes together, and perhaps the longer you do it, the more frequent the moments are. I think one of the things I do love about ballet is the fact that perfection is so extremely difficult to achieve. It would be boring if we got it all right -- what then? There is always something to be working on, and the joy is in the journey, even with the road blocks we encounter along the way.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2001 5:51 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2001 11:01 pm
Posts: 72
Location: Virginia
Hey! I have a little question.<BR>Do you consider 'winging' your foot in arabesque to be cheating? Do you know what I'm talking about? Well, I must admit that I do it sometimes, but cannot help but feel slightly guilty. I mean, my foot isn't slack, but...<BR> Do you feel it's appropriate to sacrifice that perfectly pointed foot for the sake of a lovely turned-out arabesque? I know I'm not the only one out there who does it, let's hear from you!


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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2001 5:04 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 13071
Location: San Diego, California, USA
Dulcinea - we had another couple of threads on this - here is the link to one of them - and within that thread you will find the link to the other - so you can read and decide for yourself:<P><A HREF=../../../ubb/Forum19/HTML/000078.html><B>BEVELING THE FEET</B></A><P>


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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2001 2:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2001 11:01 pm
Posts: 72
Location: Virginia
Thanks for those links. Seems to be a personal preferance, I suppose. Interesting that someone mentioned it being encouraged in Vaganova training, I do definately notice a Kirov tendancy towards it.


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