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 Post subject: Frappes
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2001 3:15 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 12:01 am
Posts: 442
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
I have not, until recently (a couple of weeks ago), encountered the frappe, or those beats, in a ballet class. We do them in class now, and I try hard to hold my coup-de-pied, and my coupe, and turnout, AND go at the right speed. the teacher says that keeping your knee stable and not moving it at all helps you work the muscles correctly to make it go faster. I'm trying to work on it with correct positioning, so does anyone have tips. It's just scary when he gives the combo, and everyone around me is going so fast that I can't even see there feet!


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 Post subject: Re: Frappes
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2001 3:50 pm 
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Location: San Diego, California, USA
That's very interesting Bebounce - I remember frappés from my very first class. So, it is interesting that you have just recently had them.<P>Yes, they can be very fast. And your teacher is correct - the knee should be held as still as possible. The action takes place below the knee. Think of the leg from below the knee like the pendumlum on a clock going in and out - front of your standing foot or in back of your standing foot.<P>The first thing you need to do is to be sure not to sit into your standing hip. That is vital - that will slow you down - as well as be the wrong placement. Then place your moving leg in retiré, lower it to coupé keeping the hip turned out - both hips are turned out equally. Never one more than the other. That is your starting position.<P>Then be sure the action of your moving leg/foot (below the knee) is an "in/out" motion - not a scraping motion. It shouldn't look like you are scratching your standing leg. It doesn't go back and forth - it goes in and out.<P>This is best practiced slowly - so you can really get the feel of that in/out motion. Then you can speed it up. You can practice that by yourself.<P>In the end, it just takes time to get that speed, it really does. Don't be discouraged and don't watch the other people. Get your technique correctly and the speed will come.<p>[This message has been edited by Basheva (edited June 25, 2001).]


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 Post subject: Re: Frappes
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2001 4:03 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 12:01 am
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Location: Basking Ridge, New Jersey, USA
What you are describing sounds to me like what I call petit battement, the little beats back and front. Frappe is the one that strikes or knocks against the floor and totally extends at the completion of each strike. Sometimes they are combined in the same exercise.


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 Post subject: Re: Frappes
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2001 4:55 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2001 11:01 pm
Posts: 191
Location: Iola, Texas
I think you're right about her meaning the petite battement, nancy. Those are kind of hard, bebounce. I'm better on my right than my left, and my right isn't anything to write home about.<P>Try and do them at half speed at first, until you are sure of what the motion first. Then gradually increase the speed. They take a good amount of control in order to execute them properly and it just takes practice. <P>Aren't there two types of petite battement? Ones that move front and back of the supporting leg, and then ones that are just small beats right at the ankle - usually in releve?


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 Post subject: Re: Frappes
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2001 5:58 pm 
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Location: San Diego, California, USA
Yes, AHallMark - those at the ankle I call petit battement serré.<P>Petit battements are a study in learning where to exercise control (above the knee) and where to relax - below the knee. And gradually increasing the tempo is a great idea.


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 Post subject: Re: Frappes
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2001 4:55 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2001 12:01 am
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Location: Wisconsin
Is frappe always supposed to strike the floor? Because sometimes my teacher gives them to us so fast it looks like we're kicking ourselves, and it's not possible to strike the floor. Is it ever okay not to strike the floor, or to just barely touch it?<P>Plus, with pointe shoes, it gets very noisy!<p>[This message has been edited by Bree (edited June 27, 2001).]


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 Post subject: Re: Frappes
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2001 5:27 am 
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Location: San Diego, California, USA
Bree- there are different schools of thought on frappé. However, in my opinion, frappé always strikes the floor - except when it is done with what some people call piqué, and some people call pointe. But, when it is done with the piqué, then some people call that a petit battement piqué - lol. And, of course, unless it is done in relevé.<P>Frappé means to strike.<P>If you really get the in/out motion rather than the rubbing motion correctly - then even at a blistering tempo it should look clean and not as if you are kicking yourself. To my mind that is arrived at by relaxing below the knee - and allowing that lower leg to move like the pendulum of a clock.


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 Post subject: Re: Frappes
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:32 am 
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Location: Iola, Texas
One other piece of advice, bebounce, since you stated that when he gives the combo everyone is going so fast that you can't see their feet. If you don't understand the combination, or a step in the combination...speak up! Raise your hand and say, "I'm not sure about that last step. Could you show me that again." When the teacher gives the combination and then asks "Any questions?" that is your opportunity to ask for clarifications.<P>I'll sometimes tell the teacher, "I haven't seen that step before. Can you show it to me again." Or, "I'm not sure I'm doing it right." This is the teachers job, to teach you correctly. But teaching is not a one-way street. It also involves a student and if the student doesn't provide feedback when they don't understand something, both the teacher and the student will get frustrated.<P>A recent example was my class yesterday. We have a mixture from intermediate to advanced dancers. The teacher is great but she has noticed that the younger girls rely solely on the more advanced girls to know the combination so they can follow them - instead of learning the combinations themselves. They spend alot of time just trying to "copy" the steps that they aren't "executing" the steps. So she brought it to their attention in class yesterday. Yeah, it took a little while longer to go over the combinations, but by the time barre was over, the younger girls got better about marking the combination. They understand each step better and will begin to execute the step better as time goes on.<p>[This message has been edited by ahallmark (edited June 27, 2001).]


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 Post subject: Re: Frappes
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2001 4:55 am 
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Location: Wisconsin
Then be sure the action of your moving leg/foot (below the knee) is an "in/out" motion - not a scraping motion. It shouldn't look like you are scratching your standing leg. It doesn't go back and forth - it goes in and out.<P>Can you give me some tips on how to make double frappe less of a scratching motion and more of an 'in/out' motion, please? Do you apply the 'in/out' principle to doubles? I have some troubles with these because the 'back/forth' motion in doubles makes it difficult for me to keep the thigh still.<P>Whoops! I'm editing to get rid of the bold...my HTML went out the window...<p>[This message has been edited by Bree (edited June 29, 2001).]


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 Post subject: Re: Frappes
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2001 6:24 am 
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Location: San Diego, California, USA
In my opinion, Bree, the same in/out motion applies for doubles - only it is faster and smaller.<P>Now, remember the thigh is not entirely still - but that is the aim. If the teacher says "ok the thigh moves a bit" then students would allow it to move a lot - so the teacher says "the thigh is quiet". <P>And the same principle applies to triples - in/out - but faster and shorter.


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 Post subject: Re: Frappes
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2001 5:04 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 12:01 am
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Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
I've seen petit battements-the beats front and back- which is what I think I'm talking about. And the frappes we do from coupe and sur la coup de pied. I've been taught frappes with a flexed to a pointed foot too though. So what's up with that?<BR>


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 Post subject: Re: Frappes
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2001 5:57 pm 
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Location: San Diego, California, USA
There are several ways to do frappé, Bebounce. And several ways to do petit battement too. Flexed foot, pointed foot, starting coupé, starting sur la cou de pied, and ball of the foot starting on the floor.<P>Many ways - so it pays to learn them all...or at least try to.


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 Post subject: Re: Frappes
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2001 12:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 01, 2001 11:01 pm
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Location: St. Joesph, MN
Yesterday for the first time, I too encountered frappes. However here's my where my frustration lies. My teacher said that when you start a frappe your foot is suppose to be flexed, however, she also mentioned that it is easy to start curling your toes and you have to be careful of that. I'm confused, when I flex my foot my toes curl. What am i doing wrong? Also when you brush out you hit the floor going out....do you hit it coming back in??


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 Post subject: Re: Frappes
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2001 12:37 pm 
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Location: San Diego, California, USA
SalimaC - when the foot goes out it does strike the floor - but does not strike it on the way back. At least I have never heard of it doing so except for another step we call "flic-flac".<P>As for toes curling - just articulate the foot at the ball of the foot, that shouldn't curl the toes. I assume you mean curling the toes under?


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 Post subject: Re: Frappes
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2001 3:59 am 
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Location: Guildford, Surrey, UK
Curling the toes is one of the most common faults with frappes. I try and get my students to think of completely relaxing the foot a bit like the sensation you get as you come through first position in a rond de jambe a terre. However this is hard as it is quite a contrast from the fully stretched and strong feeling needed for the actual frappe, strike part.


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