public forum
home forum magazine gallery links about faq courtesy
It is currently Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:39 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: 1st and 5th
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2001 5:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 12:01 am
Posts: 442
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
I see a lot of kids with not enough flexibility to hold the 180 turnout, but that stand in that "perfect" 1st. And in fifth, they force there heels to their toes and everything. I'm wondering how this affects their knees. Their knees seem to be so strong to be able to take that! Did dancing from a young age give them some extra flexibility and torque in their knees that us late starters don't get so much? Are my knees just REALLY weak (cuz I know my knee construction is). With years of this, I don't understand how they can keep dancing. I know the turnout muscle sare stronger than mine- but geez!


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: 1st and 5th
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2001 6:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 13071
Location: San Diego, California, USA
Well, Bebounce torquing the knees that way might not stop someone from dancing immediately with an injury - but sooner or later it will. <P>Did you see that thread where I put up a picture of the ballerina Natalia Makarova? As beautiful as she is, you could plainly see in that picture that her knees were NOT over her toes. Now, she did dance beautifully for many years. But when I saw that picture in 1978 (I believe it was) I told my students that I bet some day she would injure her knees.<P>And sure enough, a few years later one of the reasons she retired was severe knee problems and surgery to her knees.<P>So while it may not happen sooner - it most assuredly will probably happen later.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: 1st and 5th
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2001 8:27 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 11:01 pm
Posts: 54
Location: uk
In fifth position is it truely possible to get the feet positioned totally touching one another? I find that my knees (because they overextend) actually prevent this.

_________________
Bagpussmiaow


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: 1st and 5th
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2001 8:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 13071
Location: San Diego, California, USA
When the construction of your legs/knees prevents this from happening, Bagspussmiaow, then so be it.....you can't go against your own construction.<P>This is very true in attaining first position too. When there is hyperextension the heels will not touch. And, you should NEVER force them to do so.<P>Everyone has to work within their own personal body's construction. To do otherwise, is to invite disaster. In my opinion.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: 1st and 5th
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2001 9:04 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 11:01 pm
Posts: 54
Location: uk
Basheva . .do you think that when I take my exams in a few months the examiner will mark me down for being unable to do a 'textbook' fifth?<BR>TI do really try to take care of my knees if possible - i dont want to have to give up ballet because of problems that could've been avoided.<BR>Thanks

_________________
Bagpussmiaow


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: 1st and 5th
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2001 9:08 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 13071
Location: San Diego, California, USA
Bagspussmiaow - as you probably know I am not a syllabus teacher, so I can't truly answer your question.<P>However, there are several syllabus teachers here - Red Shoes - Joanne - to name but two. Perhaps they could give you a more definitive answer.<P>As for myself, there was NOTHING that could have gotten me to harm my knees or any other parts of my body - because that would mean I couldn't dance, or cut my career short. That is a personal choice, however.<P>So, I am sure that when one of the syllabus teachers sees your question, you will have a much better answer.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: 1st and 5th
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2001 9:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 3129
Location: Guildford, Surrey, UK
As far as I am concerned an examiner will and should look at what is the best turnout that student can phsically give and mark according to that.<P>One of the other important things to remember is that examiners will consider it more important for a student to be able to maintain the turnout they have as they move through all their steps in the exam rather than just having a good turnout at the barre and then losing that as soon as they move.<P>Exams are about consistency not just about doing one thing brilliantly and the rest average. I would concentrate on producing a good natural turnout for yourself and maintaining that turnout throughout the exam.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: 1st and 5th
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2001 10:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 12:01 am
Posts: 442
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
About 1st position: Do you guys let students stand with the knees hyperextended so that their heels do not touch? I always keep my heels together and don't let my knees hyperextend, even though I'm pretty hyperextended. I don't ever straighten my knees completely when standing. I've been in chorus since I was very young, and they always taught us not to stand and let our knees go like that (or lock), so I don't ever straighten them all the way- except in moves in which the teacher says to do so (you can't even tell that I am hyperextended if I'm not stretching or doing some of those things in dance!). Our teacher told us never to let just the knees touch and not the heels, because of the stress it puts on your knees when they are kept hyperextended like that. I've had to get problems with straightening my knees completely when I need to (back leg arabesque, pirouette turns-that I work at, so it's minor), but is that something that a lot of people do (not letting the heels touch), or does it depend on the style of ballet you are studying?


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: 1st and 5th
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2001 1:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 13071
Location: San Diego, California, USA
Well, Bebounce, I think it's more like pulling up on the knees - not pushing back on the knees. A person with hyperextended knees should never push back on the knees - that is quite different from straightening them. A hyperextended knee more than straightens.<P>If a student stands in first position with a straight pulled up leg/thigh/knee and the heels still do not touch - so be it. I think we are talking about the matter of degree of space here.<P>You also have to remember that this affects how you come through first position in rond de jambe a terre. You surely can't come through that first position with a loose knee - nor a hyperstraight knee. A dancer with this kind of construction has to remember to come through that first position with space between the heels too. Again it is a matter of the degree of that space.<P>


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
The messages in this forum are posted by members of the general public and do not reflect the opinions or beliefs of CriticalDance or its staff.
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group