public forum
home forum magazine gallery links about faq courtesy
It is currently Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:48 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 44 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: pointe work
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2001 9:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 01, 2001 11:01 pm
Posts: 64
Location: St. Joesph, MN
Okay, I have a really dumb question, but its bothering and I just don't understand. I have read everything that I can get my hands on,all the threads within this forum, talk to teachers, and taken classes on when and how one knows if they are ready to be en pointe. The common characteristcs that I noticed is that if you are young around 12 years is a good time to start, if you are an adult you need approximately two years of dance to be ready for pointe. Now I don't know if anyone is familar with the movie "Save the Last Dance" but basically it revolved around this girl's desire to go to Juillard. My question however is this, the star, Juila Stiles, she had never had a ballet class before doing that movie. She was interviewed and she said that she had THREE MONTHS!! of ballet training. How could she manage to gain that much strength in order to be en pointe in such a short time? Regardless of her skill level, she was able to do many things that even after a year I feel I need more work. Does anyone have any ideas? Because I am totally lost.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: pointe work
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2001 4:47 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 13071
Location: San Diego, California, USA
Once again - THERE ARE NO DUMB QUESTIONS...<P>I have to tell you that I did not see that movie. However....<P>One time when I was teaching, one of my adult students had brought in her 4 yr. old daughter. We were busy with the class and the little girl was sitting in the corner watching. Then she found a pair of pointe shoes that I had left lying on a table. Without anyone noticing she put on my shoes (which are a size 6 1/2) which were much too big for her. She knotted the ribbons around her ankles, stood up and before any of us could stop her, did a very credible pirouette on pointe!!<P>I had another adult student who came to me with only a couple of months ballet and her past teacher had let her go on pointe, and she was doing quite well. I had her take off her pointe shoes and continue to work in slippers until at least a year was up. Actually, she was quite good on pointe. <P>But certain things are at risk - things that are unseen. Things that a responsible teacher is aware of and careful of. An untrained foot is open to future injury - bunions, hammer toes, arthritis. A trained foot has muscle and ligament support - plus the rest of the body is aligned to help that foot support the weight placed in such an artificial manner. Let's face it - pointe is artificial - it is unnatural.<P>But other injuries can occur - knees, back, ankles. While it is true that injury may not occur EVERY TIME to EVERYONE who is put on pointe too early - without enough support - the chances are much greater that injury will occur. <P>As for skill level - there are some people who are ready in every way for pointe work, and still never really attain the skills once they are on pointe. They never seem to get beyond a single pirouette, they always seem to struggle. And others, seem to come to their first class with inherent skills - almost like they were born dancing. We have all seen those lucky people.<P>But for most of us - we have to work at it. Sometimes the body is ready and the mind is not - and never will quite be. And for others the mind is ready - and, alas, the body never quite gets there. But for most people there is a meeting of mind and body. And to judge where that is - is the problem for the teacher.<P><BR>


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: pointe work
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2001 7:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 3129
Location: Guildford, Surrey, UK
Salima<P>I too have not seen the movieso i cannot comment specifically - but could it be possible that it wasn't her doing the pointe work , could they have cleverly edited it to make it look like her doing the pointe work.<P>It is plausible that with three months training, and for a Hollywood film they would have given her very intensive training, that she would have learnt enough ballet to look good in the film in the not on pointe sequences. But in Hollywood who knows they may have shoved her up on pointe for the movie - however I would put my money on it being a double - but I haven't seen the film.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: pointe work
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2001 8:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 11:01 pm
Posts: 26
Location: Mukilteo,WA,USA
Salima~<BR> I have seen the movie and I absolutely loved it! It was one of those "go for your dreams"insparational movies! Indeed, I too wondered how could she have been so good, but in another interview or in the same one you heard, I also heard her say that she did this dance movie because she used to take ballet class and loved it, but had to quit, so she had some training and also I am sure that the dancing she did in the movie was *very very very* well rehearsed! I don't think they taught her a great full class with all the parts, just the moves that were going to be used in the movie. Image<BR> ~reverances,<BR> technique_shoe<BR> (Anastasia)


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: pointe work
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2001 9:47 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 13071
Location: San Diego, California, USA
I think Joanne makes a good pointe that often a double is used - or it is edited in such a way to produce the "look" that is wanted/needed.<P>In the movie Center Stage - as I remember it - one of the girls was doing a reversé sur la pointe. I remember thinking "uh oh - she is going to topple over" and sure enough just at that moment the movie cut away and the ending for the renversé was never shown.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: pointe work
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2001 5:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2001 12:01 am
Posts: 31
Location: Oklahoma City, OK, USA
From what I've heard, most of the dance sequences were done by a double. 75%. <P>*in a mysterious voice* I cannot reveal my sources, but a lot of it was not Ms. Stiles, childhood training or no. <P>I did also notice that during Center Stage, Basheva, and had the thought that an edit must be coming up soon because she is not going to finish that....


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: pointe work
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2001 5:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 12:01 am
Posts: 442
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
THat makes me wonder about Center Stage! I could tell when some doubles were used- like for the figure skater guy (the russian guy), except for the girl who played jody and the guy who played cooper-of course. But I know that the hispanic girl had lots of dance experience (at least 10 years) and had stopped for awhile. So did shse actually do the pointe work in the film? I remember one scene where she was doing a pique arabesque or something, and they switched angles and I didn't even see her leg go up at all, so does anyone know if she did some or all of the pointe work in the movie?


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: pointe work
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2001 4:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 1689
Location: USA
I think it's fun to watch these dance films and try to find the editing and doubling. Remember in "The Turning Point" the camera switches of Anne Bancroft?<P>Then, of course, there's the notorious "Flashdance" and all the news about the dance doubling.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: pointe work
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2001 4:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2001 12:01 am
Posts: 31
Location: Oklahoma City, OK, USA
I believe Zoe Saldana, the Hispanic actress, had some dance training and had maybe even been a dancer in some form, although I don't think ballet was her primary focus. Nicholas Hytner (sp?), the director, in his commentary (yes, I turned it on, to pick apart the movie - LOL) said something about the vast majority of the dancing being done by a double, a dancer with ABT, I think? Her name started with an A, I believe. Can't remember much more than that.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: pointe work
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2001 5:33 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2001 11:01 pm
Posts: 191
Location: Iola, Texas
Okay...on Center Stage....<P>Jody - own dancing (apprentice - San Francisco Ballet)<BR>Cooper - own dancing (principal - ABT)<BR>Charlie - own dancing (corps - ABT)<BR>Anna - own dancing<BR>Maureen - some own dancing/non-pointe, her double Deanne McBearty did the pointe work (NYCB)<BR>Eva - some own dancing/non-pointe, her double Aesha Ash (corps - ABT) did the pointe work and the closing ballet (look at the across the floor work in the first day class - that's Aesha with a quick edit to show Zoe chane and finish)<BR>Sergie - some own dancing, the closing ballet is a double<BR>Erik - own dancing<BR>Johnathan's wife (I can't think of her character's name!!) own dancing (principal - ABT)<P>I haven't seen Save the Last Dance.<P><BR>[This message has been edited by ahallmark (edited May 21, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by ahallmark (edited May 21, 2001).]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: pointe work
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2001 5:44 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 13071
Location: San Diego, California, USA
Wow - AHallMark - thanks for that!! Very interesting isn't it?<P>Maggie, I remember Anne Bancroft in "Turning Point" - she did manage to capture the essence of how a dancer would act, I think, in her walk, sitting, etc. And the editing was clever in the studio scene. I have that tape.<P>The producers (and I am drawing a blank here over their names - husband and wife - she a dancer as I remember it) had a goal also to capture on film the leading dancers of the day. So there is lots and lots of dancing by many wonderful dancers.<P>In that film Gelsey Kirkland was supposed to star and dance opposite Baryshnikov. However, she had lost too much weight and looked too thin - so Leslie Browne who was the understudy got the role. Sad for Gelsey, but a big break for Leslie.<P>Also, they were trying to cast the old Russian teacher and they asked retired Prima Ballerina Alexandra Danilova who she would recommend. She said she would recommend herself!!! Good for her!! So that is who the old Russian teacher is. <P>For those of you who are younger, and might not know it, Danilova was the last ballerina trained under the Russian Czars, she danced and starred with the Ballet Russe under Diagelev. <P> Look in your dance history books and you will find Alexandra Danilova's name. She was Prima of the company for many years. She was also a common law wife of Balanchine. They remained friends long afterwards and he hired her to teach at SAB, where she helped to coach and train many wonderful dancers.<P>She wrote a book about her life called "Choura" - which was her nickname. She died a few years ago a beautiful, proud, beloved ballerina.<P><BR>I thought she was superb in the film.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Basheva (edited May 21, 2001).]


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: pointe work
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2001 7:24 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2001 11:01 pm
Posts: 191
Location: Iola, Texas
I also have "Turning Pointe". I remember watching it a long time ago and I saw it mentioned as one of the great dancing films done. So I looked at the video store. Lo and behold, they had it!<P>I agree, Basheva, that even though Anne Bancroft did not "dance", she did pull it off in her posture, marking, gracefulness and portration of an "eventide" dancer. I love watching this film since the dancing is SO superb.<P>I also like the scene where Leslie is a little looped, has to go on stage and bungles it. She nails this. What would happen in real life? Since she was "just a freshman corps member", would this have been tolerated?<P>Of course, some of the scene are not appropriate, but I do let my 8 year old watch this supervised. (Okay, don't look! *fastforward*.... the mute button also works!)<P>The ballet made for Leslie at the gala is just....beautiful! Looks like it was fun to dance. What happened to Leslie Browne? I read in a book that her career kinds floundered years later?<P>


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: pointe work
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2001 7:51 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2001 11:01 pm
Posts: 73
Location: Netherlands
I have also seen the movie turning point, and I really liked it! After I have seen it one time I have watched it over for somethinglike 6 times.<P>If I didn´t knew that Anna Bancroft wasn´t a professional dancer I wouldn´t notice.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: pointe work
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2001 8:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 11:01 pm
Posts: 13071
Location: San Diego, California, USA
I believe that Leslie Browne became a principal dancer with ABT, but she has retired, as I remember it. I also believe that she won a prize at the Varna competition.<P>I do remember that wonderful Pas de Deux she danced in the movie with Baryshinikov, AHallMark.<P>That scene with Leslie Browne being a little "looped" reminded me that in Fonteyn's biography she turned up once for a performance having had some wine (gosh, I hope I am remembering this correctly) and she was kind of wobbly too. She promised herself "never again" - and she never did that again.<P>I once had coffee on my way to a morning pointe class, and was so shaky, I promised myself I would never do that again.<P>Herbert Ross was the producer. He was also a dancer and choreographer. And his wife was Nora Kaye!!! So the producers were real dancers, too.<P>I also believe that I remember, Leslie Browne came from a family of dancers/teachers.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: pointe work
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2001 9:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 12:01 am
Posts: 1278
Location: Basking Ridge, New Jersey, USA
Yes, Leslie Browne does come from a family of dancers. I don't know what her entire schedule is like now, but I do know she is teaching at STEPS on Broadway in NY; one of my students just auditioned for their summer program in one of Leslie's classes. After the loopy scene in Turning Point, I was never able to watch the Wilis in Giselle the same way again.<P>Aesha Ash is with NYCB. I saw her perform on Saturday night, and she is lovely. I believe Julie Kent played Jonathan's wife in Center Stage? And how about Jonathan himself (that's the ballet master, isn't it?)? He was an actor who had me believing he was a dancer.<P>I was fortunate to be able to study a little with Mme. Danilova in NY. She was every bit as colorful in real life as she was on the screen, right down to her extensive wardrobe of teaching outfits. I can't imagine anyone else having played that role in Turning Point.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 44 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
The messages in this forum are posted by members of the general public and do not reflect the opinions or beliefs of CriticalDance or its staff.
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group